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The Surveillance Engine: How the NSA Built Its Own Secret Google

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Re: The Surveillance Engine: How the NSA Built Its Own Secret Google

#51

Post by knowaveragejoe »

eyeareque wrote: post #4

People always assumed they did this but now we have proof. I thought it was amazing that the government spent so much time discussing the call records being logged.. when they are doing so much worse. Maybe that's how they keep people focusing on what the government wants to talk about? (aka look over here, nevermind that thing over there...) This find is way worse than call detail records..

I think it's a combination of things. On the one hand, the phone records issue is the most easily understood by the general public, and so it already had traction there. It sort of fell into the government's lap that they could focus all of their press' attention on that issue in particular.

I agree doubly so however - the phone records are near the very bottom of the list when it comes to the severity of what Snowden's(and possibly other's) revelations have brought to light.

Re: The Surveillance Engine: How the NSA Built Its Own Secret Google

#52

Post by [deleted] »

eyeareque wrote: post #4

People always assumed they did this but now we have proof. I thought it was amazing that the government spent so much time discussing the call records being logged.. when they are doing so much worse. Maybe that's how they keep people focusing on what the government wants to talk about? (aka look over here, nevermind that thing over there...) This find is way worse than call detail records..

[deleted]

Re: The Surveillance Engine: How the NSA Built Its Own Secret Google

#53

Post by glitchdout »

Dolimiter wrote: post #44

Is anyone else puzzled that stories about the NSA are accepted as gospel fact when posted on Hacker News? The Reality Distortion Field appears, and people believe, because they want to believe. It depresses me, the lack of intelligent discourse. Most tech people I meet actually believe that the NSA records and stores all telephone calls. It's depressingly stupid, but I have given up arguing, logic and sense are not w…

They do record and store (foreign and domestic) phone calls. Your comment proves you're simply an ignorant or a shill.

Proof:

* NSA Collects ‘Word for Word’ Every Domestic Communication, Says Former Analyst http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/government_programs-july-dec1...

* NSA collecting phone records of millions of Verizon customers daily http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/06/nsa-phone-recor...

* NSA surveillance program reaches ‘into the past’ to retrieve, replay phone calls http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nsa-su...

* NSA spying flap extends to contents of U.S. phone calls http://www.cnet.com/news/nsa-spying-flap-extends-to-contents...

Re: The Surveillance Engine: How the NSA Built Its Own Secret Google

#54

Post by knowaveragejoe »

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #50

This has been released and is use by almost two dozen federal agencies and now is the first time we're hearing about it? When folks tell us crazy things, like the government is tracking every place you go and your opinions through your cell phone and social networks, we're supposed to say something like "That's extraordinary. With extraordinary claims, we require extraordinary proof" Then, if they persist, we're supp…

Just curious, where is the bit about keeping track of your opinions? Surely it's been proposed(so has everything and the kitchen sink), but that doesn't mean it's effective or useful in any way.

Re: The Surveillance Engine: How the NSA Built Its Own Secret Google

#55

Post by mikegioia »

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #50

This has been released and is use by almost two dozen federal agencies and now is the first time we're hearing about it? When folks tell us crazy things, like the government is tracking every place you go and your opinions through your cell phone and social networks, we're supposed to say something like "That's extraordinary. With extraordinary claims, we require extraordinary proof" Then, if they persist, we're supp…

You're up against a growing population of people who inherently think that "the government is tracking every place you go and your opinions through your cell phone and social networks" is NOT crazy.

Re: The Surveillance Engine: How the NSA Built Its Own Secret Google

#56

Post by cmdkeen »

junto wrote: post #35
visarga wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe they recruit people while they are employed at FB/GG/Msft/Amz, you know, to help with national security while also receiving a second wage.

I imagine that you'll get downvoted to hell for saying that, but if I was the NSA I'd do exactly this. I'd also threaten you if you refused to comply. I would already know exactly which employee to target based on your dubious interests gleaned from your internet searches.

And not a single one of them has spoken up about being coerced into compromising their employer (a big one, with lots of lawyers) by the government?

Re: The Surveillance Engine: How the NSA Built Its Own Secret Google

#57

Post by psaintla »

seiji wrote: post #15
curiousDog wrote: post #13

Wonder how and where they recruit their top-talent. Pretty much every top scorer in my school went to Facebook/Google/Msft/Amzn. The mediocre ones went to Northrop Grumman/Raytheon/Rockwell and the like.

The Company doesn't exactly encourage recruits to advertise their new position. You mostly see people just vanish for a while. Young recruitment is largely done through direct faculty recommendations at schools, so it's more of a "don't find us, we'll find you" proposition.

Exactly, a good friend of mine in college was recommended for a job at the NSA by one of my professors in early 2001. He went to having a heavy online presence and being a constant in our social circles to completely disappearing. His personal site went dormant, he stopped showing up on irc, abruptly dumped his long time girlfriend. My roommate bumped into the guy at a grocery store in Virginia but other than that he doesn't exist to anyone who knew him for years or online.

Re: The Surveillance Engine: How the NSA Built Its Own Secret Google

#58

Post by smokeyj »

oceanstone wrote: post #34
DigitalSea wrote: post #32

Imagine if hackers were to somehow to find out where this tool is being hosted and then brute force their way in? Presumably such a tool is heavily secured and off the grid, but if it is somehow accessible from the Internet and an attacker were to find out where, it's only a matter of time now that the cat is out of the bag. Could you imagine hackers having access to troves of metadata and information like that? It's…

Furthermore, think of how profitable surveillance on certain individuals could be. Could a military contractor not have a thriving side business funneling out intelligence on innocent American targets? Could multiple people not be hired just to clear tracks and make justifiable excuses for accessing the records? If Snowden, as one person, accomplished what he did with (the majority of Americans would say) good intent…

I'd just play the market. Find dirt on CEOs, short their stock and pass the dirt to the media.

Re: The Surveillance Engine: How the NSA Built Its Own Secret Google

#59

Post by avn2109 »

visarga wrote: post #19
anoothrowaway wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience in school (and grad school) was similar, so I've been curious about the same thing. Perhaps, they only recruit folks from the industry after they've worked for a while and have specialized?

Maybe they recruit people while they are employed at FB/GG/Msft/Amz, you know, to help with national security while also receiving a second wage.

It would be amazingly naive to think that the various alphabet agencies have not made it their business to penetrate a wide variety of business, government, and NGO organizations. If it makes you feel any better, the Russians have plants in FB/Google/Amazon too.

Re: The Surveillance Engine: How the NSA Built Its Own Secret Google

#60

Post by ekm2 »

curiousDog wrote: post #13

Wonder how and where they recruit their top-talent. Pretty much every top scorer in my school went to Facebook/Google/Msft/Amzn. The mediocre ones went to Northrop Grumman/Raytheon/Rockwell and the like.

I am guessing they get them young.Who sponsors MATHCOUNTS,AMC and other contests for highly gifted kids?Raytheon,Northrop Grumman.
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