America can't be the world's tech leader without immigration reform.
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Re: America can't be the world's tech leader without immigration reform.
#2I've seen firsthand the waits and the bureaucracy of some of these immigration documents.
I can tolerate waiting; while frustrating, that's not the real issue. But it's hard to just live a normal life in limbo, with all the implicit threats. Your documents are tied to your job, so switching jobs will risk, at minimum, starting from scratch; and there is a chance of denial and deportation at every turn. You are also not immune to layoffs, so this can blow up in your face without warning, giving you a very short period of time to fix it. And in the end, even if you survive all the hoop jumps, there is still a chance you will be denied the documents that you've been waiting years to receive.
Compare this to somebody just wanting to do essentially the same work in their home country, where they probably can, minus all the bullshit. This is why the U.S. is in danger: because immigrants can only take so much, and at some point, they simply will move all their ideas and capital back home.
Re: America can't be the world's tech leader without immigration reform.
#3The article is interesting in suggesting that comprehensive immigration reform is a political landmine for this administration, as it has been for previous administrations. A founder visa would be an interesting incremental change, especially favored by the readership of HN. Testimony in Congress before passing such a new law would surely bring up the issue of what happens when a start-up firm fails, as many do.
A press notice for pg is of course interesting to readers of HN, and it will be one more proof of his notability (no longer doubted) on Wikipedia.
Re: America can't be the world's tech leader without immigration reform.
#4I've seen firsthand the waits and the bureaucracy of some of these immigration documents. I can tolerate waiting; while frustrating, that's not the real issue. But it's hard to just live a normal life in limbo, with all the implicit threats. Your documents are tied to your job, so switching jobs will risk, at minimum, starting from scratch; and there is a chance of denial and deportation at every turn. You are also n…
But it's hard to just live a normal life in limbo, with all the implicit threats.
Do immigrants have in all cases a home country to go back to with a better trade-off in this regard than the United States? As long as some countries are sufficiently lousily governed, the United States will always have a ready supply of some kinds of immigrants. The article's point is correct that persons who are able to set up new businesses with new technologies probably have better capacity to shop for a country to live in than most migrants.
Re: America can't be the world's tech leader without immigration reform.
#5The article is interesting in suggesting that comprehensive immigration reform is a political landmine for this administration, as it has been for previous administrations. A founder visa would be an interesting incremental change, especially favored by the readership of HN. Testimony in Congress before passing such a new law would surely bring up the issue of what happens when a start-up firm fails, as many do. A pr…
The article is interesting in suggesting that comprehensive immigration reform is a political landmine for this administration, as it has been for previous administrations.
The trouble is that the kind of "comprehensive immigration reform" which politically powerful constituencies are currently pushing is nothing like the kind of immigration reform which would actually be useful.
Re: America can't be the world's tech leader without immigration reform.
#6I've seen firsthand the waits and the bureaucracy of some of these immigration documents. I can tolerate waiting; while frustrating, that's not the real issue. But it's hard to just live a normal life in limbo, with all the implicit threats. Your documents are tied to your job, so switching jobs will risk, at minimum, starting from scratch; and there is a chance of denial and deportation at every turn. You are also n…
But it's hard to just live a normal life in limbo, with all the implicit threats. Do immigrants have in all cases a home country to go back to with a better trade-off in this regard than the United States? As long as some countries are sufficiently lousily governed, the United States will always have a ready supply of some kinds of immigrants. The article's point is correct that persons who are able to set up new bus…
Yes, but some previously lousily governed countries like China and India have become much better options than they were even ten years ago. The goal is not to have "some kinds of immigrants", it is to have the best.
Re: America can't be the world's tech leader without immigration reform.
#7Earlier quoted context omitted.
But it's hard to just live a normal life in limbo, with all the implicit threats. Do immigrants have in all cases a home country to go back to with a better trade-off in this regard than the United States? As long as some countries are sufficiently lousily governed, the United States will always have a ready supply of some kinds of immigrants. The article's point is correct that persons who are able to set up new bus…
Yes, but some previously lousily governed countries like China and India have become much better options than they were even ten years ago. The goal is not to have "some kinds of immigrants", it is to have the best.
Not to mention that many of the "best" immigrants (i.e. highly trained, highly educated) have come from first-world industrialized nations to begin with. Political instability and threat of mortal danger is not the only thing that compels people to move.
Re: America can't be the world's tech leader without immigration reform.
#8The article is interesting in suggesting that comprehensive immigration reform is a political landmine for this administration, as it has been for previous administrations. A founder visa would be an interesting incremental change, especially favored by the readership of HN. Testimony in Congress before passing such a new law would surely bring up the issue of what happens when a start-up firm fails, as many do. A pr…
The article is interesting in suggesting that comprehensive immigration reform is a political landmine for this administration, as it has been for previous administrations. The trouble is that the kind of "comprehensive immigration reform" which politically powerful constituencies are currently pushing is nothing like the kind of immigration reform which would actually be useful.
I'm an immigrant myself, and would love to see these problems fixed. At the same time, I do understand that U.S has bigger problems like healthcare that need to be fixed first. Realistically speaking, I doubt much will happen in the immediate future (next 1-2 years).
One thing is sure though - what US is losing, other countries like Canada, UK etc (my roomate left for UK last month, after studying in US and working here for 4 years) are gaining.
Re: America can't be the world's tech leader without immigration reform.
#9Presumably, if we aren't the world's tech leader, some other country will be. India, China, ??? Who?
And once you've decided "who?" ask yourself whether that country will somehow depend upon open-borders, and whether its prominent web magazines will propagandize relentlessly for the same.
People who discuss this do not give two flies for America's "tech leadership" or whatever other baloney abstraction you prefer. It's a political subject only.
Re: America can't be the world's tech leader without immigration reform.
#10My issue with ideas like the "startup visa" is that they require restrictions and bureaucracies. You end up with more draconian restrictions on immigrants causing resentment. You end up with more distortion of market signals.
What happens when a startup goes under? Visa cancelled? Well that's reason to pour more resources in or just pretend it's still alive. What happens if they do some consulting on the side to stay alive? What happens if it ends up all consulting? What happens if people come out with the intention of doing this. How are you going to stop it? Force them to develop products?
What is a startup? Does a lawn mowing startup count? How about if they invent their own lawn mower? in 'The Founder Visa,' Graham proposes that the Governemnt could "use investment by recognized startup investors as the test of whether a company was a real startup." Recognised by who? Do you really want to erect an official barrier to entry for investors?
What about an existing startup in country X that wouldn't mind moving to the US. Now they need an officially recognised investor. They don't need an investor. They need a visa. They can pay for it. The investor is in a position to sell a visa, even if it looks like he is just getting a good deal on some stock. It might even look like that to the investor. I offered a deal. They took it. The power to grant a visa is worth money and even if you can control the granter's morals or incentives (you can't), you cannot control the grantee's reasons for accepting a deal.
4 consultants doing remote work for mostly US clients decide they could double their (say $150k p/a) revenue by moving to the US and doing the same. Theoretically, they can afford up to $150k p/a for the visa. Say they take $100k "investment" form a recognised investor in return for a promise to pay $50k p/a. How would the visa process weed these candidates out. Review the business plan? Make sure that they are planning to build a business that scales? Consulting doesn't scale. Are you sure? Will we have a list of business plans that scale?
The article mentions setting up "a board of investors, entrepreneurs, and tech lawyers who are used to vetting tech ideas; they'd review applications and choose which ones are worthy of a Founder Visa." This, it reckons, would be open to corruption.
I don't think it is possible to have "controlled immigration" that is this controlled to this extent without these ugly issues.