Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How the Napa Earthquake Affected Bay Area Sleepers

jawbone.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 112 posts

Re: How the Napa Earthquake Affected Bay Area Sleepers

#41

Post by amirmc »

TomAnthony wrote: post #38
antr wrote: post #18

The fact that Jawbone has this information on their users (yes, I know they say it's aggregated and "anonymised" data) is pretty scary to me. In my opinion, this data should only be visible to each user, and no one else. I really doubt Jawbone users are aware that their UP devices are sending data to third-parties... it feels like 21st century shackles.

I'm a Jawbone UP user and I have absolutely no problem with this anonymised data being used like this. It can make not only the product better but could also lead to useful research around sleep and health. If I want out then Jawbone has a handy 'remove all my data' option. People share all sorts of data in all sorts of places (as others have pointed out in this thread), and it is their own responsibility to read the…

> "... it is their own responsibility to read the T&Cs of those services."

While some people may believe/feel this is reasonable, it has rapidly become impractical. Have you read the T&CS for all the services you use? Any idea how many pages of text that comes to? Did you also know that the reading level of most T&Cs requires college-level education (just to comprehend)?

My point is that it is already impractical (& will become more so) to suggest that T&Cs can make people aware of anything.

Re: How the Napa Earthquake Affected Bay Area Sleepers

#42

Post by josephlord »

lfx wrote: post #33
antr wrote: post #18

The fact that Jawbone has this information on their users (yes, I know they say it's aggregated and "anonymised" data) is pretty scary to me. In my opinion, this data should only be visible to each user, and no one else. I really doubt Jawbone users are aware that their UP devices are sending data to third-parties... it feels like 21st century shackles.

Quote from [1] Jawbone Privacy page: "We may share your Information with third parties to provide services on our behalf such as to process payments, or to store information collected through our site, app, and services." Does this statement allows them to use users data for this purpose? [1] https://jawbone.com/legal/privacy

The Use of Information section includes press releases although it is not counted in the sharing section. I also see no commitment to anonymising the data.

Jawbone uses your information to provide and deliver products and services you request; personalize your experience and customize content, marketing, and recommendations; respond to requests that you make, provide you with customer service, send you press releases, general informative announcements, and promotional information about us or our products, or to aid us in serving you better; and protect, investigate, and deter against fraudulent, unauthorized, or illegal activity.

Re: How the Napa Earthquake Affected Bay Area Sleepers

#44

Post by reitanqild »

amirmc wrote: post #41
TomAnthony wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a Jawbone UP user and I have absolutely no problem with this anonymised data being used like this. It can make not only the product better but could also lead to useful research around sleep and health. If I want out then Jawbone has a handy 'remove all my data' option. People share all sorts of data in all sorts of places (as others have pointed out in this thread), and it is their own responsibility to read the…

> "... it is their own responsibility to read the T&Cs of those services." While some people may believe/feel this is reasonable, it has rapidly become impractical. Have you read the T&CS for all the services you use? Any idea how many pages of text that comes to? Did you also know that the reading level of most T&Cs requires college-level education (just to comprehend)? My point is that it is already impractical (&…

I used to read them, then sift through them. Then I gave up. My defence would go along the lines of: you don't seriously think that any end user would read that, would you? (Exceptions for APIs etc.)

Same goes for legal disclaimers in email footers, cookie warnings, warning stickers etc. Why are we allowing this to happen?

(My solution: "Yes, you can sue them because the coffee was hot (etc) and there was no sticker on it, you just have to be prepared to give up your voting rights and your drivers license in the progress. Continue Yes/No?")

Re: How the Napa Earthquake Affected Bay Area Sleepers

#45

Post by reitanqild »

zaius wrote: post #22

Interesting data. Some things that jumped out at me: 1. Apparently everyone in Santa Cruz goes to bed early and gets up early. 2. I would have expected bigger jumps on the hour. Maybe I'm the only one that sets my alarm on the hour though. 3. Why would there be dips in the AM? People hitting snooze perhaps? 4. How long do you have to moving for UP to think you're awake? How long do you have to be still for the UP to…

Did some work in the area a few years ago. Found out most of the people at the place I worked for got up at about 2am (!) because they wanted to be finished by lunch. At least in the summer. (disclaimer: this wasn't an air conditioned office though : )

Re: How the Napa Earthquake Affected Bay Area Sleepers

#46

Post by tehwebguy »

amirmc wrote: post #41
TomAnthony wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a Jawbone UP user and I have absolutely no problem with this anonymised data being used like this. It can make not only the product better but could also lead to useful research around sleep and health. If I want out then Jawbone has a handy 'remove all my data' option. People share all sorts of data in all sorts of places (as others have pointed out in this thread), and it is their own responsibility to read the…

> "... it is their own responsibility to read the T&Cs of those services." While some people may believe/feel this is reasonable, it has rapidly become impractical. Have you read the T&CS for all the services you use? Any idea how many pages of text that comes to? Did you also know that the reading level of most T&Cs requires college-level education (just to comprehend)? My point is that it is already impractical (&…

Maybe there should be regulated permissions, sort of like the way an OS might have a dialog to request permissions for push notifications or location data.

Example, you can still include any terms you want but some items need to be individually agreed to in plain language, like "This product will report your location back to us"

Sort of like FDIC notices or nutrition facts.

Re: How the Napa Earthquake Affected Bay Area Sleepers

#47

Post by forgottenpass »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #24
wwwwwwwwww wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the issue is that they're collecting this data in the first place. I cant help but wonder how much it would cost to get the sleep records of a competitor of mine - or if it's not for sale, how much the data would be worth on the black market if their servers got hacked. I have doubts this information is being kept as securely as it should be, that's where my concern lies.

Well, if one is willing to one-up a fellow human like that, one is a bad person. But you don't need Jawbone data to do that, there are plenty other ways. Honestly, the problem in your example isn't the data.

one is a bad person

So what? Time and time again things that would make you a bad person are silently accepted as normal or even expected of a business.

Re: How the Napa Earthquake Affected Bay Area Sleepers

#48

Post by bjacobel »

dredmorbius wrote: post #36
lfx wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But this is not simple image. This is interactive chart. You can hover lines and get some info via tool tip. Apparently you are using quite old browser, if you don't mind asking you? Since D3js, the lib used to generate SVG, supports majority of browsers[1]. [1] https://github.com/mbostock/d3/wiki#browser--platform-suppor...

You are correct. I am using an old browser. It does date from the present decade, however. It's not that old. I'm somewhat amused by the number of sites which fail to work properly (some at all) with it. Imgur is entirely dead. Reddit I can read, but moderation and reply buttons don't work. I hit the beta rollout of a news site last night (apparently part of their A/B test) and found that among the features which fai…

So... Update, maybe? I'm sure the web developers of those sites aren't "somewhat amused" by having to try to support your ancient browser.

D3 should work in any browser that supports SVG, which is every desktop browser but IE8 [1]. If you're still using IE8, some sites not working is going to be the least of your problems soon - Microsoft isn't patching it anymore.

[1]: http://caniuse.com/#feat=svg

Re: How the Napa Earthquake Affected Bay Area Sleepers

#49

Post by dkural »

wwwwwwwwww wrote: post #13
wamatt wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did they really dispose any of the users data though? It appears they displayed a chart. That graphic, it could be argued, is based on an entirely new data set. So while individual data sets may been used at some point behind the scenes, it's not like those data sets are the ones being disposed.

the issue is that they're collecting this data in the first place. I cant help but wonder how much it would cost to get the sleep records of a competitor of mine - or if it's not for sale, how much the data would be worth on the black market if their servers got hacked. I have doubts this information is being kept as securely as it should be, that's where my concern lies.

The whole point of the device & service they are selling is, they collect this data. Then you can log in and see it in the future.

Distributing is a different concern. But people pay jawbone to actually collect and store it, so they can view it later.

Re: How the Napa Earthquake Affected Bay Area Sleepers

#50

Post by smackfu »

icebraining wrote: post #40
jobigoud wrote: post #34

"All results are statistically significant." Isn't this an overly optimistic claim? Surely people using a sleep tracking device do not form an unbiased sample of the general population when it comes to sleep patterns?

Nobody said it was a study on the general population, only on the UP wearers population.

OTOH, if their sample size is the same as the population size, their data is by definition statistically significant.
Post reply on HN