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Earthquake early-warning system gave 10-second alert before Napa quake felt

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41–50 of 108 posts

Re: Earthquake early-warning system gave 10-second alert before Napa quake felt

#41
post #2

A few seconds warning seems like it might be kind of useless for humans, especially at 3am, but it would be cool to have this feed into automatic systems to automatically put them in a "safer" state before an earthquake hits. It might even be that 10 false positives a day are worth it to catch one real event, if the "safing" operation is relatively non-disruptive.

> A few seconds warning seems like it might be kind of useless for humans [...]

One of the things mentioned on the USGS site is doctors in surgery. Knowing even a couple of seconds in advance that you should pause the procedure could save lives.

Re: Earthquake early-warning system gave 10-second alert before Napa quake felt

#42
post #2

A few seconds warning seems like it might be kind of useless for humans, especially at 3am, but it would be cool to have this feed into automatic systems to automatically put them in a "safer" state before an earthquake hits. It might even be that 10 false positives a day are worth it to catch one real event, if the "safing" operation is relatively non-disruptive.

Excellent point. It could, for example, switch off gas lines at various checkpoints. I wonder how that might that affect appliances? For example, if a hot water heater is heating and the flame goes out, but then the gas comes back on is the heater smart enough to re-ignite the gas (or shut it off)?

Most things with a pilot light make use of a thermocouple to keep the gas from leaking out when no flame is present.

Re: Earthquake early-warning system gave 10-second alert before Napa quake felt

#43
post #39
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an interesting exercise to spend a day or two trying to be aware of what would be the most likely dangers where you are at the moment if you were caught in a good sizes quake right then. I think that most will find that there are many times each day where a few seconds warning would make a difference. Some common situations: • Carrying a heavy item that would hurt you if you dropped it on your foot, or fell down…

I attended a talk by one of the developers of this system, and since earthquake warnings are so short (tens of seconds), it's unlikely that traditional alert mechanisms can be delivered to the general public. As such, the primary consumers of the device will be places like nuclear power plants and major industrial operators who are willing to install special alarms. The other example he gave was giving doctors perfor…

Cell phone app. Setup something like the reverse-911 system, or even just a downloadable app that can wake your phone from sleep and use the speakers to alert its carrier that an earthquake is on the way.

Hell, maybe this is even a use for "Yo".

Re: Earthquake early-warning system gave 10-second alert before Napa quake felt

#44
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've got to say that my experience with Amber Alerts is strongly negative. For a while they were triggering various alerts (including EBS interruptions on radio and TV), with a frequency that lead me to strongly discount such warnings. Emergencies should be reserved for circumstances in which the recipient of a message can and should take immediate action. An alert is just that: an advisory. Run these was an item in…

And yet, at least once, the alert on the phone specifically (rather than a newscast or highway signage) appears to have saved at least one life[0]. Of course, we don't know what would have happened, and it did wake up the whole state, too. But I think the argument in favor is that the probability of success for these searches decreases quickly with time, so there is substantial value in getting word out quickly. [0]…

There's a discussion on reddit at the moment concerning cycling, where one of the interesting assertions of recent research is that overall public health would benefit from no helmet laws and more bike lanes.

That is: adults are less likely to ride bikes if they're required to wear a helmet (as I understand, laws for minors would remain), but the health benefits of increased activity and cycling outweigh the risks of injury.

open http://www.reddit.com/r/environment/comments/2ec8v5/forget_b...

I'm open to arguments over flawed methodology or other issues, but the point is that sometimes there are apparent safety measures that, when taken, increase risks. Another case in point would be TSA airport security measures, which by encouraging more trips to be made by automobile, have arguably increased overall death risks to travelers (as reported by Bruce Schneier and others). I'm among those who've either foregone or elected to drive on journeys rather than fly, even aware of the risks (and, frankly, if you've got the time, it's often far more interesting and enjoyable).

The US Department of Justice reports 685 successful recoveries, though it doesn't list the number of activations of the Amber Alert system, nor whether or not the recoveries were materially aided by the system.

http://www.amberalert.gov/statistics.htm

Edit: A more complete set of statistics and resolutions from 2002-2011 is given here, including ativation requests received but not resulting in alerts: http://www.statisticbrain.com/amber-alert-statistics/

According to that, there had been 190 activations (fewer than I'd thought), 77 were parental abductions (about 35%), acquaintances 55, strangers, 37. Another 355 alert requests were made but not activated.

The Wikipedia article on the Amber Alert system raises a number of the points I've mentioned above:

"A Scripps Howard study of the 233 AMBER Alerts issued in the United States in 2004 found that most issued alerts did not meet the Department of Justice's criteria. Fully 50% (117 alerts) were categorized by the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children as being "family abductions", very often a parent involved in a custody dispute. There were 48 alerts for children who had not been abducted at all, but were lost, ran away, involved in family misunderstandings (for example, two instances where the child was with grandparents), or as the result of hoaxes. Another 23 alerts were issued in cases where police did not know the name of the allegedly abducted child, often as the result of misunderstandings by witnesses who reported an abduction."

On stranger abductions:

"Seventy of the 233 AMBER Alerts issued in 2004 (30%) were actually children taken by strangers or who were unlawfully travelling with adults other than their legal guardians."

Regarding effectiveness:

"Some outside scholars examining the system in depth disagree with the "official" results.[60][61][62] A team led by University of Nevada criminologist Timothy Griffin looked at hundreds of abduction cases between 2003 and 2006 and found that AMBER Alerts actually played little apparent role in the eventual return of abducted children. Furthermore, AMBER Alerts tended to be 'successful' in relatively mundane abductions, such as when the child was taken by a noncustodial parent or other family member. There was little evidence that AMBER Alerts routinely 'saved lives'"

There are further concerns with AA as "crime prevention theater" (much as the TSA is seen as homeland security theater), of the "crying wolf" effect, over 4 a.m. cell-phone alerts, over use where the Alert criteria aren't met, of distraction effects of highway signage especially during rush hour, and more.

Contrasting AA with a widespread and imminent natural disaster or civil emergency alert:

In the case of an Amber Alert, a very small number of individuals are likely to be in a position to assist at all, let alone actually assist, in a recovery. Risking "alert fatigue" should be a very real concern. I am not opposed to forms of widespread message propagation, but these should be done through nonemergency channels (e.g., a news or other scheduled statement or alert), rather than by distracting drivers, waking sleeping people, or interrupting people engaged in other activities, the vast majority of whom have no bearing on the outcome of the incident.

In the case of an earthquake, tornado warning, tsunami alert, flash flood, landslide, wildfire, or similar event, people over a widespread area have seconds or minutes to act and take measures which will directly and materially benefit them by saving lives, preventing or reducing injury, and reducing harm or damage to property.

These are totally different situations.

Re: Earthquake early-warning system gave 10-second alert before Napa quake felt

#45
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I attended a talk by one of the developers of this system, and since earthquake warnings are so short (tens of seconds), it's unlikely that traditional alert mechanisms can be delivered to the general public. As such, the primary consumers of the device will be places like nuclear power plants and major industrial operators who are willing to install special alarms. The other example he gave was giving doctors perfor…

Cell phone app. Setup something like the reverse-911 system, or even just a downloadable app that can wake your phone from sleep and use the speakers to alert its carrier that an earthquake is on the way. Hell, maybe this is even a use for "Yo".

How about the delay? The message is not delivered instantly. Plus, such a system would be required to be already scaled up, and stay in that state always, to support sending messages to millions of "subscribers", which would only add additional delay.

Re: Earthquake early-warning system gave 10-second alert before Napa quake felt

#46
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I attended a talk by one of the developers of this system, and since earthquake warnings are so short (tens of seconds), it's unlikely that traditional alert mechanisms can be delivered to the general public. As such, the primary consumers of the device will be places like nuclear power plants and major industrial operators who are willing to install special alarms. The other example he gave was giving doctors perfor…

Cell phone app. Setup something like the reverse-911 system, or even just a downloadable app that can wake your phone from sleep and use the speakers to alert its carrier that an earthquake is on the way. Hell, maybe this is even a use for "Yo".

iOS has included this (for Japan at least) since iOS 5[0].

In the US they also do it for AMBER alerts[1]. iPhone has this, not sure about Android though.

[0]: http://9to5mac.com/2011/08/21/ios-5-includes-early-earthquak... [1]: http://www.imore.com/amber-alerts-your-iphone-what-they-are-...

Re: Earthquake early-warning system gave 10-second alert before Napa quake felt

#48
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've got to say that my experience with Amber Alerts is strongly negative. For a while they were triggering various alerts (including EBS interruptions on radio and TV), with a frequency that lead me to strongly discount such warnings. Emergencies should be reserved for circumstances in which the recipient of a message can and should take immediate action. An alert is just that: an advisory. Run these was an item in…

And yet, at least once, the alert on the phone specifically (rather than a newscast or highway signage) appears to have saved at least one life[0]. Of course, we don't know what would have happened, and it did wake up the whole state, too. But I think the argument in favor is that the probability of success for these searches decreases quickly with time, so there is substantial value in getting word out quickly. [0]…

To be honest, that exact alert is what made me turn amber alerts off in Android.. I live so far from Charlotte that there is no way it might be relevant..

Re: Earthquake early-warning system gave 10-second alert before Napa quake felt

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cell phone app. Setup something like the reverse-911 system, or even just a downloadable app that can wake your phone from sleep and use the speakers to alert its carrier that an earthquake is on the way. Hell, maybe this is even a use for "Yo".

How about the delay? The message is not delivered instantly. Plus, such a system would be required to be already scaled up, and stay in that state always, to support sending messages to millions of "subscribers", which would only add additional delay.

If you use broadcast messages, the number of subscribers shouldn't matter. There already exists a system like this in the US: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commercial_Mobile_Alert_System

> CMAS will allow federal agencies to accept and aggregate alerts from the President of the United States, the National Weather Service (NWS) and emergency operations centers, and send the alerts to participating wireless providers who will distribute the alerts to their customers with compatible devices via Cell Broadcast, a technology similar to SMS text messages that simultaneously delivers messages to all phones using a cell tower instead of individual recipients.[3][4]

Re: Earthquake early-warning system gave 10-second alert before Napa quake felt

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cell phone app. Setup something like the reverse-911 system, or even just a downloadable app that can wake your phone from sleep and use the speakers to alert its carrier that an earthquake is on the way. Hell, maybe this is even a use for "Yo".

iOS has included this (for Japan at least) since iOS 5[0]. In the US they also do it for AMBER alerts[1]. iPhone has this, not sure about Android though. [0]: http://9to5mac.com/2011/08/21/ios-5-includes-early-earthquak... [1]: http://www.imore.com/amber-alerts-your-iphone-what-they-are-...

Android does as well. (Source, worked in an Android development company, those alerts are really annoying when you are in the same room as a dozen test devices).
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