Err, how can they call it that? DeLorean is still trademarked; I know it's a different industry but I imagine considering the inference about the relevance of time to the software and the brand association with time that no lawyer would have approved that. http://delorean.com/ Also I'm pretty sure a lot of games such as FPSs already do this with direction of motion etc and have done for many many years. John Carmack…
DeLorean: Using Speculation to Enable Low-Latency Interaction for Cloud Gaming
31–40 of 49 posts
Re: DeLorean: Using Speculation to Enable Low-Latency Interaction for Cloud Gaming
#32One cheap way of reducing lag where fast mouse movements are done, would be to render a much wider view, send the entire image to the client and then client uses the appropriate segment based on the latest mouse position. At downvoter: Why would you downvote a suggestion that is on topic?
This is not how it works, you don't send an entire image to the client, you send the coordinates of discrete objects and each client renders locally. And yes, the coordinates of objects moving behind you are being sent too.
Re: DeLorean: Using Speculation to Enable Low-Latency Interaction for Cloud Gaming
#33Err, how can they call it that? DeLorean is still trademarked; I know it's a different industry but I imagine considering the inference about the relevance of time to the software and the brand association with time that no lawyer would have approved that. http://delorean.com/ Also I'm pretty sure a lot of games such as FPSs already do this with direction of motion etc and have done for many many years. John Carmack…
Anyway, I'm not sure the word "DeLorean" was ever trademarked. By 2008 most related trademarks had been abandoned http://www.deloreanmotorcar.com/dmc/tmarks.htm and I can't find anything in a quick USPTO search now.
Re: DeLorean: Using Speculation to Enable Low-Latency Interaction for Cloud Gaming
#34Edited: Nm Having read the article, I'm still very sceptical of the feel for games that receive a high frequency of user input. It's precisely when a sudden, radical change in input is made that lag is most noticeable from my experience. I'm also curious about the extra resource requirements when it comes to physics of which many modern games are heavily reliant. That being after actually successfully modifying a the…
I saw this in miniature a couple of years ago, when I was experimenting with real-time gaming using web technologies (I know, I know, TCP), but one blocker for low-hanging-fruit projects is that to get a good experience you need client-side prediction, but then it's very hard to get anything like that and also use a pre-existing physics engine.
The real problem is: I'm a wuss.
Client-side prediction seems like magic to me, and has hurt my head every time I've programmed it, and it goes right back to seeming like magic when I've written it, and I never feel entirely certain that I'm on solid ground.
I always come away with the impression that networked physics is hardcore, and I don't have enough chest hair to deal with it. :)
Re: DeLorean: Using Speculation to Enable Low-Latency Interaction for Cloud Gaming
#35they would try to infer what an object's motion would be a few frames ahead of what's coming in from the network. the clients (iirc) would only correct what's in the scene graph if the server disagreed. unlagged was a super aggressive version of this that let other clients be the deciding factor. it was especially useful (or frustrating) for instagib over bad connections.
Re: DeLorean: Using Speculation to Enable Low-Latency Interaction for Cloud Gaming
#36interesting that they should use an id game, doom3, because quakeworld implemented something similar: from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QuakeWorld : QuakeWorld's most important feature is its rewritten networking code (for client-side player prediction and delta compression). Player prediction allowed QuakeWorld clients to compensate for high latency, thus allowing dialup users to move around in the virtual world wit…
If I remember correctly the prediction was basic. Using the delta of the previous frame until the updated version came trough.
Re: DeLorean: Using Speculation to Enable Low-Latency Interaction for Cloud Gaming
#37There are some games this will simply not work for, like fighting games, where even the delay caused by the LCD rendering each frame is noticeable. The ADC in the LCD is either too slow or has too much processing happening. Many hardcore fighting game fans prefer CRTs due to this. There is no cure for latency. The network is physical. Instead of trying to abstract it away in a library and assume lag doesn't exist, it…
It sounds like, for a connection of latency L, at time T-2L, the server sends to the client multiple fully rendered frames, each representing the render state for time T for every possible user input that could occur between T-2L and T. The client receives these frames at time T-L, while sending a user input state at T-L which the server will use for a future packs of images. At time T, the client chooses the frame to display based on the actual input the user performed at time T, discarding the rest, and the server receives the user's input from time T-L, using it to render and send the next pack of images for time T+2L.
So while it is strictly true that latency is impossible to avoid for the first two rendered frames, that's only a small fraction of a second and only at the very beginning. After that it's eliminated. Now obviously, rendering speed and bandwidth change the equation and is probably why there is a limit to the latency it can correct for. But this does appear to be a cure for interframe latency.
It's lazy tree culling of every render state at every point in time for every conceivable user input state at that time. It's certainly a big tree, but it seems they are making the statement that it's small enough to fit in modern bandwidth capacities.
Of course, you wouldn't be able to use this in your fighting game example to counteract the relative slow speed of the LCD, but that is because there would be no way to cull the set of images at the LCD itself.
Re: DeLorean: Using Speculation to Enable Low-Latency Interaction for Cloud Gaming
#38I think a lot of software innovation is still possible that will allow a VR headset to mask maybe a 50ms delay (smaller than in OP) with advanced algos, allowing you to get photorealistic, real-time graphics through low-power hardware that fits in the headset.
Re: DeLorean: Using Speculation to Enable Low-Latency Interaction for Cloud Gaming
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is not how it works, you don't send an entire image to the client, you send the coordinates of discrete objects and each client renders locally. And yes, the coordinates of objects moving behind you are being sent too.
No, that is how it works. This is for cloud gaming, where frames are rendered on a server, not on the client. The server is speculatively rendering possible frames, sending them to the client, and allowing the client to select among them depending on input.
Re: DeLorean: Using Speculation to Enable Low-Latency Interaction for Cloud Gaming
#40One of the current annoyances of the oculus rift is that it requires a cable that restricts freedom of movement... I'd bet dollars to donuts a big part of the Oculus development effort right now is going specifically towards these kinds of "prediction" algos so that a more low-powered PC with a battery can reside in the helmet, which can communicate with a custom low-latency wireless network to a "base station" that…