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Who Stole the Four-Hour Workday?

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Re: Who Stole the Four-Hour Workday?

#21

Post by toomuchtodo »

ericras wrote: post #17
taber wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can somebody explain why this was downvoted? It may be based on false assumptions, but at least commenting moves the conversation forward.

Not really increasingly expensive. For example, a TV is actually a lot cheaper (not to mention better) than it used to be. We have/want more stuff then people in the past. Houses are larger. Families have more cars, more clothes, more toys, etc. Plus things that didn't exist like cell phones and internet access.

Exactly.

The work week hasn't dropped because people have chosen (poorly, but that's just my opinion) to have more "stuff" than free/leisure time.

Re: Who Stole the Four-Hour Workday?

#23

Post by cousin_it »

spindritf wrote: post #4

People who don't work at all. That's the choice (maybe more like outcome) the society went with. For what might the first time in history, the rich are working more than the poor[1] and labour participation rates are dropping[2]. In many ways this is a superior alternative. Children don't work. They used to. People spend a lot more time in school at the beginning of their life when it has the potential to have the bi…

I think competition is the main villain here. Zero-sum games, prisoner's dilemmas, arms races and tragedies of the commons stole the four-hour workday from us, and many other good things besides. A nice toy example is "20% time" at companies like Google, which tends to evaporate as soon as your performance evaluation compared to your peers becomes tied to your performance at your main project.

The only solution to competition is centrally enforced precommitment. First, the government should actually enforce the eight-hour workday. Then it should reduce the workday, for all employers at once, so no one can get ahead by cheating. I don't see any other solution.

Re: Who Stole the Four-Hour Workday?

#24

Post by yuliyp »

wyager wrote: post #8
FD3SA wrote: post #6

Capitalism`s greatest strength is also its greatest weakness. The profit motive is so strong that it often ends up creating irrational scenarios such as the economic situation we have today. European countries seem to have struck a far better balance by harnessing the profit motive of capitalism while preventing disasters such as for-profit healthcare, for-profit education, for-profit government policies (for the ric…

Please explain how for-profit education is a disaster. By all measures, private schools in the US are superior to public schools, and the US's private universities are consistently rated best in the world. You also can't generalize about e.g. for-profit healthcare based on the American situation, because the regulatory environment is so extreme as to have to created a government-controlled crony-capitalistic oligopol…

you equated "for-profit" education with "private schools". The two are not the same. Most of the category that you think of as "private schools" are non-profit, but religious or otherwise not government-sponsored.

Re: Who Stole the Four-Hour Workday?

#25

Post by notahacker »

wyager wrote: post #8
FD3SA wrote: post #6

Capitalism`s greatest strength is also its greatest weakness. The profit motive is so strong that it often ends up creating irrational scenarios such as the economic situation we have today. European countries seem to have struck a far better balance by harnessing the profit motive of capitalism while preventing disasters such as for-profit healthcare, for-profit education, for-profit government policies (for the ric…

Please explain how for-profit education is a disaster. By all measures, private schools in the US are superior to public schools, and the US's private universities are consistently rated best in the world. You also can't generalize about e.g. for-profit healthcare based on the American situation, because the regulatory environment is so extreme as to have to created a government-controlled crony-capitalistic oligopol…

For profit education is good at delivering education for those that can afford it; in the case of university education that means providing an excellent degree programme and qualification which saddles graduates with cripplingly high loan repayments they will take over a decade to pay off.

What they add in prestige, they subtract by making continuous employment a full-time professional job the only practical option for the average graduate. I'd hesitate to call that a "disaster", but it is a huge factor in the phenomenon the article (edit: and particularly the Economist link posted by spindrift http://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21600989...) describes: educated professionals in the US actually [necessarily] working more hours than the average person.

Re: Who Stole the Four-Hour Workday?

#27

Post by Turing_Machine »

rwallace wrote: post #20
wyager wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please explain how for-profit education is a disaster. By all measures, private schools in the US are superior to public schools, and the US's private universities are consistently rated best in the world. You also can't generalize about e.g. for-profit healthcare based on the American situation, because the regulatory environment is so extreme as to have to created a government-controlled crony-capitalistic oligopol…

> the US's private universities are consistently rated best in the world. By whom? In particular, are there any ratings of American versus European universities by people who have experience of both? I only have experience of the latter; from what I've heard from Americans talking about their university experience, it sounds markedly inferior.

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-ranki...

Re: Who Stole the Four-Hour Workday?

#28

Post by was_hellbanned »

adventured wrote: post #15
wyager wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please explain how for-profit education is a disaster. By all measures, private schools in the US are superior to public schools, and the US's private universities are consistently rated best in the world. You also can't generalize about e.g. for-profit healthcare based on the American situation, because the regulatory environment is so extreme as to have to created a government-controlled crony-capitalistic oligopol…

I can only assume the parent is blaming the spiraling cost of education on Capitalism, when in fact it's the perpetually increasing federal loan guarantees spurring massive inflation that is the root of the cause. The spiral in healthcare was also caused by the government taking over the industry in the late 1960s. No coincidence both industries began to skyrocket in cost at exactly the same time, shortly after Nixon…

The spiral in healthcare was also caused by the government taking over the industry in the late 1960s.

I'm guessing that you're referring to the introduction of Medicare and Medicaid in 1965, which is hardly "taking over the industry".

Re: Who Stole the Four-Hour Workday?

#29

Post by Turing_Machine »

Turing_Machine wrote: post #27
rwallace wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the US's private universities are consistently rated best in the world. By whom? In particular, are there any ratings of American versus European universities by people who have experience of both? I only have experience of the latter; from what I've heard from Americans talking about their university experience, it sounds markedly inferior.

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-ranki...

Another:

http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-uni...

Both of these organizations are British.

Re: Who Stole the Four-Hour Workday?

#30

Post by VLM »

ericras wrote: post #17
taber wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can somebody explain why this was downvoted? It may be based on false assumptions, but at least commenting moves the conversation forward.

Not really increasingly expensive. For example, a TV is actually a lot cheaper (not to mention better) than it used to be. We have/want more stuff then people in the past. Houses are larger. Families have more cars, more clothes, more toys, etc. Plus things that didn't exist like cell phones and internet access.

That's a macro vs micro problem. On a macro level it doesn't matter how many greenbacks or grams of gold or seashells or BTC are in play, the median dude is going to, almost by definition, live in the median house, and his extractable wealth by definition will become the median price.

The median of whatever China decides to ship to us, will by definition, be the median quality TV and be sold at the median price. Either sell at that price or throw away profit or stuff warehouse with unsold merchandise.

Its the same effect as .gov donating money for day care or housing or schooling has no direct effect on rates... all it does is make the item more expensive.

I guess one way of putting it is you can't expect people to be richer if you do give all of them more money (aka inflation).

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