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Ask YC: Are there *any* startups using ASP.NET?

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Re: Ask YC: Are there *any* startups using ASP.NET?

#21

Post by DarrenStuart »

iamelgringo wrote: post #11

I'm finishing a survey of web development technologies class. We've covered everything from PHP to Perl + CGI, classic ASP and ASP.NET, and JSP. I spent this past summer learning RoR, and I plan on picking up Django next summer. [non-flame-bait personal opinion] And, I have to say that I came to a strong dislike for ASP.net. In fact I was carrying a 4.0 until this ASP.NET project. I disliked it so much, I didn't fini…

if you use datasets you can do all that boring sql stuff in 1 line of code. Also you can create a DAL and map those objects to the server controls without writing a line of code if you use VS2005 and above.

MVC for asp.net is on the way btw.

Re: Ask YC: Are there *any* startups using ASP.NET?

#22

Post by hello_moto »

iamelgringo wrote: post #11

I'm finishing a survey of web development technologies class. We've covered everything from PHP to Perl + CGI, classic ASP and ASP.NET, and JSP. I spent this past summer learning RoR, and I plan on picking up Django next summer. [non-flame-bait personal opinion] And, I have to say that I came to a strong dislike for ASP.net. In fact I was carrying a 4.0 until this ASP.NET project. I disliked it so much, I didn't fini…

You should either use NHibernate, SubSonic or wait for EDM/LinQ in the upcoming ASP.NET so you won't deal with 5-6 lines of ADO.NET code.

But I have to agree with you, it's not that straightforward to understand ASP.NET esp if you have previous knowledge of developing web-app because ASP.NET tries to abstract everything out for you (via their Controls, ViewState etc).

On the other side, ASP.NET might not be discipline in terms of MVC but then again it is ridiculously easy to re-create a GridView such that I don't care much about the VC part of the MVC. I write less code thanks to Visual Web Developer tool.

Re: Ask YC: Are there *any* startups using ASP.NET?

#23

Post by iamelgringo »

hello_moto wrote: post #22
iamelgringo wrote: post #11

I'm finishing a survey of web development technologies class. We've covered everything from PHP to Perl + CGI, classic ASP and ASP.NET, and JSP. I spent this past summer learning RoR, and I plan on picking up Django next summer. [non-flame-bait personal opinion] And, I have to say that I came to a strong dislike for ASP.net. In fact I was carrying a 4.0 until this ASP.NET project. I disliked it so much, I didn't fini…

You should either use NHibernate, SubSonic or wait for EDM/LinQ in the upcoming ASP.NET so you won't deal with 5-6 lines of ADO.NET code. But I have to agree with you, it's not that straightforward to understand ASP.NET esp if you have previous knowledge of developing web-app because ASP.NET tries to abstract everything out for you (via their Controls, ViewState etc). On the other side, ASP.NET might not be disciplin…

Wow, thanks, Guys. If I were still working on that project I'd probably pick your brains a bit more.

And, I think that you hit the nail on the head about abstracting everything out for me. In the short ammount of time, I just couldn't grokk it, but I knew I didn't like it.

It seemed like ASP.NET was a purposefull movement away from typical web development. And, I'm sure that Microsoft was trying to fix problems that they say with typical web dev.

I just think that there are better solutions out there than ASP.NET. But, if you're a windows guy and used to coding in Visual Studio, and you can already use the languages that you are used to, it might be a really good idea.

Re: Ask YC: Are there *any* startups using ASP.NET?

#26

Post by cstejerean »

tx wrote: post #8

There are plenty of startups using ASP.NET or Java-based tech. In fact most companies started by "business types" are .NET/Java because they are easier to find disposable coders for. You don't see as many .NET shops here because most posters are (a) young, (b) non-business types, and they had a chance to pick a technology. Most went with something dynamic and Linux-based. We did too. We're on RoR, despite having tons…

The startup where I work was started by business types but we're using Python. Although I have to admit that at times it is hard to find experienced Python developers (so we gave up on the Python part and started looking for experienced developers period. Turns out Python is pretty easy to learn).

My biggest problem with ASP.NET (and the reason I would pick Java over it if I had to use one of the two) is that it only runs on Windows (I keep hearing about this Mono thing but to me that still feels like a hack).

Re: Ask YC: Are there *any* startups using ASP.NET?

#27

Post by mrtron »

ubelt wrote: post #14
iamelgringo wrote: post #11

I'm finishing a survey of web development technologies class. We've covered everything from PHP to Perl + CGI, classic ASP and ASP.NET, and JSP. I spent this past summer learning RoR, and I plan on picking up Django next summer. [non-flame-bait personal opinion] And, I have to say that I came to a strong dislike for ASP.net. In fact I was carrying a 4.0 until this ASP.NET project. I disliked it so much, I didn't fini…

iamelgringo, Have you tried Data Access Application Blocks? We use them and we only need 1 line of code to read the database. SqlHelper.ExecuteReader(strConnTxt, CommandType.Text, strSql); Alternatively, you can use SqlHelper.ExecuteDataset. We also use Code Generation software that builds all the CRUD methods automatically.

We also use Code Generation software that builds all the CRUD methods automatically.

I can understand what would bring you to using a code generator, but the examples I have seen in practice are not good. I think code generators show there is something fundamentally wrong with the language/framework.

Re: Ask YC: Are there *any* startups using ASP.NET?

#28

Post by DanielBMarkham »

iamelgringo wrote: post #11

I'm finishing a survey of web development technologies class. We've covered everything from PHP to Perl + CGI, classic ASP and ASP.NET, and JSP. I spent this past summer learning RoR, and I plan on picking up Django next summer. [non-flame-bait personal opinion] And, I have to say that I came to a strong dislike for ASP.net. In fact I was carrying a 4.0 until this ASP.NET project. I disliked it so much, I didn't fini…

I'll jump into the flames -- what the heck.

The problem isn't ASP.NET: it's probably the way you were taught how to use it. The Microsoft tools do so much crap that it's like being put into a room full of levers and knobs with cryptic labels on them. Hard to know where to start or how to make things work.

Sit down with somebody who is using one of the automated DALs (like NetTiers, NHibernate, CSLA, etc) and knows what the heck they are doing. You'll find it very intuitive and the speed of development can keep pace (or surpass, depending on the domain) any other kind of web development.

Now for the BUT part. BUT you have to be doing straight-forward business development. Stuff in the middle of the road. Writing a check. Checking your email. Posting a message.Viewing your box scores. Etc. If you want something like an animated dancing baby that does different dances depending on your current stock portfolio and can sing out your RSS feeds in different languages, you're back to basics, and all that abstraction is going to get in your way big time. Also, if you want to scale up to 100K users quickly you're going to be learning a lot more about tweaking IIS and ASP.NET than you probably wanted. But for a lot of stuff, it's just fine. Not everybody is writing the next YouTube, and you can't beat the libraries available to you over on the "dark" side.(grin)

Re: Ask YC: Are there *any* startups using ASP.NET?

#29

Post by DanielBMarkham »

mrtron wrote: post #27
ubelt wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iamelgringo, Have you tried Data Access Application Blocks? We use them and we only need 1 line of code to read the database. SqlHelper.ExecuteReader(strConnTxt, CommandType.Text, strSql); Alternatively, you can use SqlHelper.ExecuteDataset. We also use Code Generation software that builds all the CRUD methods automatically.

We also use Code Generation software that builds all the CRUD methods automatically. I can understand what would bring you to using a code generator, but the examples I have seen in practice are not good. I think code generators show there is something fundamentally wrong with the language/framework.

So the use of standard abstractions and conventions in something like a DAL show a lack of what, exactly?

Re: Ask YC: Are there *any* startups using ASP.NET?

#30

Post by Shorel »

axod wrote: post #13
tx wrote: post #8

There are plenty of startups using ASP.NET or Java-based tech. In fact most companies started by "business types" are .NET/Java because they are easier to find disposable coders for. You don't see as many .NET shops here because most posters are (a) young, (b) non-business types, and they had a chance to pick a technology. Most went with something dynamic and Linux-based. We did too. We're on RoR, despite having tons…

Please don't group Java together with .NET :D

Why not?

In a world with C++, Phyton, Ruby and Lisp both are very similar.

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