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Screenshots Forever and Ever Until You Can’t Stand it

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Re: Screenshots Forever and Ever Until You Can’t Stand it

#21

Post by StavrosK »

jleader wrote: post #9
ijk wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The nice things about IA links is you can pretty reasonably assume that they won't suffer from link rot, right? The catch there being, the Internet Archive retroactively respects robots.txt that forbid crawling, so if someone gets control of a domain they can block the archived pages. This is a big problem with lapsed domains that get swept under the umbrella of a holding company that has lots of domains pointing t…

A few years ago I talked to an IA engineer, who said they were planning on dealing with this by not crawling sites whose nameservers were known to point to a domain parking company. The idea was that if they never retrieved the robots.txt, they wouldn't retroactively apply it. I don't know if that filtering out of parking nameservers ever happened, and it wouldn't help for parked domains whose robots.txt they'd alrea…

But why retroactively remove the data? The original owner was fine with holding it, why should the snapshot be deleted because a completely different person wants his completely different website to not be crawled?

Re: Screenshots Forever and Ever Until You Can’t Stand it

#22

Post by pantaril »

jmduke wrote: post #3

I've been thinking a lot the past few weeks about the preservation of art and goods in general. I think it comes from two main sources: 1. Maciej Ceglowski (`idlewords) has been talking a lot recently about link rot. Recently, he found that 25% of items pinned a mere five years ago were dead links and 17% from only three years ago were dead [^1]. That's an incredibly high rate -- and, selfishly, one I'm noticing as m…

>I've been thinking a lot the past few weeks about the preservation of art and goods in general.

I've been thinking about this myself. What i found out is that current copyright law is terrible for preservation of our culture because it makes attempts to archive, share, backup or digitalize abandoned games, music or movies illegal before their copyright expires, at which time, most of them would be probably lost foreever.

Re: Screenshots Forever and Ever Until You Can’t Stand it

#23

Post by im3w1l »

jleader wrote: post #9
ijk wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The nice things about IA links is you can pretty reasonably assume that they won't suffer from link rot, right? The catch there being, the Internet Archive retroactively respects robots.txt that forbid crawling, so if someone gets control of a domain they can block the archived pages. This is a big problem with lapsed domains that get swept under the umbrella of a holding company that has lots of domains pointing t…

A few years ago I talked to an IA engineer, who said they were planning on dealing with this by not crawling sites whose nameservers were known to point to a domain parking company. The idea was that if they never retrieved the robots.txt, they wouldn't retroactively apply it. I don't know if that filtering out of parking nameservers ever happened, and it wouldn't help for parked domains whose robots.txt they'd alrea…

Imo, a better approach than nuking old data, could be to keep the data, but not show it.

Re: Screenshots Forever and Ever Until You Can’t Stand it

#24

Post by im3w1l »

walterbell wrote: post #6
ijk wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The nice things about IA links is you can pretty reasonably assume that they won't suffer from link rot, right? The catch there being, the Internet Archive retroactively respects robots.txt that forbid crawling, so if someone gets control of a domain they can block the archived pages. This is a big problem with lapsed domains that get swept under the umbrella of a holding company that has lots of domains pointing t…

Have you heard of other caches/archives (e.g. Google) applying the same retroactive policy? Presmably IA has no way of finding out that domain ownership has changed. I wonder if they are applying this policy to pages referenced by Wikipedia, http://blog.archive.org/2013/10/25/fixing-broken-links/ The safest archive of a web page is a local PDF.

I use virtual notary for this. You give it a URL, and vn fetches it, and gives you a cryptographic certificate of time of retrieval and website's content at that time.

Re: Screenshots Forever and Ever Until You Can’t Stand it

#25

Post by psykovsky »

im3w1l wrote: post #23
jleader wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few years ago I talked to an IA engineer, who said they were planning on dealing with this by not crawling sites whose nameservers were known to point to a domain parking company. The idea was that if they never retrieved the robots.txt, they wouldn't retroactively apply it. I don't know if that filtering out of parking nameservers ever happened, and it wouldn't help for parked domains whose robots.txt they'd alrea…

Imo, a better approach than nuking old data, could be to keep the data, but not show it.

I may be mistaken, but I think I read somewhere that's exactly what they do. But don't take my word for it.

Re: Screenshots Forever and Ever Until You Can’t Stand it

#26

Post by mcb3k »

jacquesm wrote: post #20
jmduke wrote: post #3

I've been thinking a lot the past few weeks about the preservation of art and goods in general. I think it comes from two main sources: 1. Maciej Ceglowski (`idlewords) has been talking a lot recently about link rot. Recently, he found that 25% of items pinned a mere five years ago were dead links and 17% from only three years ago were dead [^1]. That's an incredibly high rate -- and, selfishly, one I'm noticing as m…

I have a few one-off remaining records and I'm very conscious of the responsibility that goes with that. I've never played them and the only time they will be played is when there is a very high grade digitization done at the same time. I've been looking at ways to digitize them without having to actually mechanically play them (using lasers) but those systems are expensive! ( http://www.elpj.com/product/price.php )

Have you looked to see about renting the equipment or finding a service that will help you do this?

Re: Screenshots Forever and Ever Until You Can’t Stand it

#27

Post by R_Edward »

jmduke wrote: post #3

I've been thinking a lot the past few weeks about the preservation of art and goods in general. I think it comes from two main sources: 1. Maciej Ceglowski (`idlewords) has been talking a lot recently about link rot. Recently, he found that 25% of items pinned a mere five years ago were dead links and 17% from only three years ago were dead [^1]. That's an incredibly high rate -- and, selfishly, one I'm noticing as m…

Do you mean to tell me that those crates of my dad's 78 rpm records sitting in my basement might actually be worth something? I was thinking about playing them on a 33.3 rpm turntable into my PC, then using Audacity to speed them up to 78, just to be able to hear the music again, and by association, remember my dad. Geeze, there must be at least a hundred of 'em down there, at least!

Re: Screenshots Forever and Ever Until You Can’t Stand it

#28

Post by jerf »

jacquesm wrote: post #20
jmduke wrote: post #3

I've been thinking a lot the past few weeks about the preservation of art and goods in general. I think it comes from two main sources: 1. Maciej Ceglowski (`idlewords) has been talking a lot recently about link rot. Recently, he found that 25% of items pinned a mere five years ago were dead links and 17% from only three years ago were dead [^1]. That's an incredibly high rate -- and, selfishly, one I'm noticing as m…

I have a few one-off remaining records and I'm very conscious of the responsibility that goes with that. I've never played them and the only time they will be played is when there is a very high grade digitization done at the same time. I've been looking at ways to digitize them without having to actually mechanically play them (using lasers) but those systems are expensive! ( http://www.elpj.com/product/price.php )

Well, sure, buying one is expensive, but you're just looking to use one. You only need one to share amongst whomever else you can find who has this need, and the Internet is really good at bringing those sorts of people together. You could Kickstart your way up to owning one of these, just as one idea. (Or work with somebody else to take it on, etc. etc., whatever.)

Re: Screenshots Forever and Ever Until You Can’t Stand it

#29

Post by lozf »

R_Edward wrote: post #27
jmduke wrote: post #3

I've been thinking a lot the past few weeks about the preservation of art and goods in general. I think it comes from two main sources: 1. Maciej Ceglowski (`idlewords) has been talking a lot recently about link rot. Recently, he found that 25% of items pinned a mere five years ago were dead links and 17% from only three years ago were dead [^1]. That's an incredibly high rate -- and, selfishly, one I'm noticing as m…

Do you mean to tell me that those crates of my dad's 78 rpm records sitting in my basement might actually be worth something? I was thinking about playing them on a 33.3 rpm turntable into my PC, then using Audacity to speed them up to 78, just to be able to hear the music again, and by association, remember my dad. Geeze, there must be at least a hundred of 'em down there, at least!

If you do this, please, for the sake of any other vinyl you have, use a different (cheaper) stylus for the 78s.

Re: Screenshots Forever and Ever Until You Can’t Stand it

#30

Post by keithpeter »

R_Edward wrote: post #27
jmduke wrote: post #3

I've been thinking a lot the past few weeks about the preservation of art and goods in general. I think it comes from two main sources: 1. Maciej Ceglowski (`idlewords) has been talking a lot recently about link rot. Recently, he found that 25% of items pinned a mere five years ago were dead links and 17% from only three years ago were dead [^1]. That's an incredibly high rate -- and, selfishly, one I'm noticing as m…

Do you mean to tell me that those crates of my dad's 78 rpm records sitting in my basement might actually be worth something? I was thinking about playing them on a 33.3 rpm turntable into my PC, then using Audacity to speed them up to 78, just to be able to hear the music again, and by association, remember my dad. Geeze, there must be at least a hundred of 'em down there, at least!

Google the work of philip jeck (samples on youtube) for hugely emotional use of the old sounds.

Try and get hold of an actual 78 rpm turntable, the old dansettes could do those speeds as could the cheaper separate turntables that had ceramic cartridges with two 'sides' (78/33).

Enjoy

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