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Delivery Startups Are Back Like It’s 1999

nytimes.com

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Re: Delivery Startups Are Back Like It’s 1999

#61
post #4

Weren't the delivery startups of the 90s severely bloated? From what I remember, they had fleets of delivery trucks, warehouses, distributors, etc. Today's delivery startups are pretty lightweight (Not counting Amazon or Google since they're already $100b+ companies).

They seem pretty lightweight, but as a result they have less control over their industry and are extremely vulnerable to market changes.

Re: Delivery Startups Are Back Like It’s 1999

#62
Currently, I'm working for a food delivery service in San Francisco where you can order from your 'favorite' (or on our list) restaurant, and we'll deliver it straight to your office. The entire delivery process is rife with problems. For starters, the majority of our deliveries are made in downtown San Francisco, a transportation arena that is terribly over used, and our presence doesn't make it any better. There's no functioning loading and unloading zone in front of our delivery locations, so either we have to park further away, or we have to park illegally, and sometimes even double park. This impacts all the traffic around us making the traffic arena even less efficient. Certainly people 'understand' our purpose, but the streets are not designed to accommodate us. We are abusing the commons with our use of their infrastructure for our delivery. If streets were designed with delivery involved, surface parking would be moved inside the blocks, and not alone the most valuable street edge. It's possible to have the street edge be for loading and unloading only. They do it at the airports, and it would create great increases in delivery efficiencies, but our cities are not designed that way. So we steal transport space instead, while trying to stay one step ahead of the ticketing agents.

Next, there's the problem of sorting, and order processing. If we have the orders early enough, our algorithm can process a decent delivery route, but with all the one way streets, it's never the most efficient route, it's just the most allowably efficient route, and so again I spend time, energy, exhausts driving around blocks to get somewhere that was just around the corner from my previous stop. Delivery doesn't have the power to change the street system, and the street system was never designed to optimize delivery. The reality of the street is a huge obstacle towards any real delivery efficiencies.

This becomes increasingly complicated when we get late orders - which we do all the time - where dispatch sees if we can 'fit another one in'. Once that happens, the perfect solution to the TSP is gone, out the window. A last minute order (especially a big order) can easily add 30 minutes to a simply route.

Then there's the issue of the actual delivery. We try to get them to our clients 'hot and steaming' but that can be a challenge. And often it gets there acceptably hot.

Then there's the actually logistics of getting the food into the buildings. Some buildings have doors that have to propped open while you are unloading. Other buildings have burdensome security measures that take extra time. Other buildings require that all deliveries be made in the delivery entrance, using the freight elevator, etc. None of this is actually on the logistics, it's only something that you discover during your route. Again this means that you have another layer of information - call it security information - that reduces all attempts at optimization.

Finally, it can't scale. No matter how efficient the point of purchase is, or the wheel and hub distribution, or the route, I can only make 16 deliveries in a shift. That's my absolute max. I can't make more. I've tried, but I can't. And I get paid a set amount every hour. What that means is that each delivery, at a minimum, has to pay half my hourly wage to receive their delivery. There's no other possibility.

The fact is that this type of delivery is extremely elastic. Fatally elastic. A tiny drop in income will result in two things - 1. Less ordering. People will simply buy fewer restaurant meals from their 'favorite' restaurants. & 2. More take out. Because in the end we are competing with take out, and while the number of restaurants a company can order from is not as large as the number of restaurants that we deliver from, the reduced price will justify the reduction in choice.

Can I see the writing on the wall? Not yet. Orders are consistent, but the nature of the business should give anyone long term pause.

As for Amazon's delivery - well they are in a completely different game, competing against a completely different segment, and so I think that they are in the strongest position to reap the benefits of same day delivery services. In fact from my perspective, I'm seeing more Amazon trucks than Office Max, Office Depot, UPS trucks. And I'm seeing Amazon boxes everywhere.

I've also been surprised at how much Ikea delivery I'm seeing. I think that they are mostly being delivered by FedEx, but we might see stand alone Ikea delivery in some cities in the future.

Those companies deliver at the end of their service structure, they already do everything else up to that point. Those are the companies that I think will come through this delivery game strongest.

So the question is who else has massive warehouse infrastructure that could just add on local delivery? Costco?

This restaurant delivery is a fools game.

Re: Delivery Startups Are Back Like It’s 1999

#63

"After all, the worst case is that we’ll go back to doing the same thing I did when Rewinery went under — running out to the store." No, the worst case is that Rewinery took out your favorite mom and pop shops and now you have to go to walmart to get your second favorite wines.

Can you clarify this point for me a bit? Because I'm not confident I follow. Somebody orders their favourite wine from Rewinery. That wine is, by your own admission, not available at Walmart. But the wine still gets delivered, right? So somebody, somewhere, went to a store and bought that bottle of wine. If they're not getting it from the mom and pop shops, where are they getting it? Surely Rewinery isn't stockpiling…

Amazon doesn't get their books by having employees drive to Barnes & Noble stores to purchase books at retail prices. Amazon buys from the same distributors/publishers that B&N uses. If B&N goes out of business because everybody buys from Amazon, the distributors/publishers don't care; they still get the business just from a different customer.

Rewinery is the same with respect to mom & pop shops. They both order from the same distributors by the caseload and pay wholesale prices. Those cases of wine get delivered to each of them by the distributor and they, in turn, each maintain their own inventory, whether on luxury handcarved hardwood shelving in a mom and pop's retail store or scattered on concrete floors in a warehouse for delivery to the consumer by truck. The distributors don't care if the mom & pop goes out of business because their other customer, Rewinery, is ordering just as much.

Re: Delivery Startups Are Back Like It’s 1999

#64

But there's one huge difference between 1999 and 2014 - mobile phones. And people, everyone, seems much more accepting of digital delivery services. Back then it was kind of a novelty. That being said I think the ones that will be most successful will put the burden of service and delivery on a 3rd party.

You should say "smart phones" instead of "mobile phones". The Nokia 3210, which came out in 1999 and was bought 160 million times, has similar dimensions (same height and smaller width) to the iPhone5, and although it is more than 2x as thick as the iPhone 5, the smallest model was still less than an 7/10 of an inch thick. I would guess that it also has better battery life than any smart phone sold today.

Yes much more accurate to say smart phones came along. Back then the "mobile" experience was typically a WAP/WML service that would display text on the screen that you could navigate. I actually worked on a service back then called Strategy.com that used WML to deliver news, weather, and traffic to mobile devices. It was very limited. We thought we were awesome when we created traffic notifications using a push service that cell providers would bundle on the phone.

Re: Delivery Startups Are Back Like It’s 1999

#65

One of the more disappointing aspects of this go-around of delivery services is that they don't seem to have learned anything about logistics. Logistics is not just solving the Traveling Salesman problem. If I could miraculously solve a TSP in linear time, that would be an amazing accomplishment. But what good does it do you if the fixed costs of loading and unloading at each node are in the 5 minute range? That limi…

The problem is with taking Instacart's $3.99 delivery fee at face value. Last I checked (which was a year ago - they've probably lowered this) on top of that they charge 10-20% markup on each item, and they also pocket any savings from coupons / sales / bulk / rewards card discounts, which I imagine can run another 10%. It's in this situation where Instacart can plausibly meet your quoted $20 figure.

Re: Delivery Startups Are Back Like It’s 1999

#66

One of the more disappointing aspects of this go-around of delivery services is that they don't seem to have learned anything about logistics. Logistics is not just solving the Traveling Salesman problem. If I could miraculously solve a TSP in linear time, that would be an amazing accomplishment. But what good does it do you if the fixed costs of loading and unloading at each node are in the 5 minute range? That limi…

The problem is with taking Instacart's $3.99 delivery fee at face value. Last I checked (which was a year ago - they've probably lowered this) on top of that they charge 10-20% markup on each item, and they also pocket any savings from coupons / sales / bulk / rewards card discounts, which I imagine can run another 10%. It's in this situation where Instacart can plausibly meet your quoted $20 figure.

My $20/delivery estimate was for UPS levels of marketshare but translated to 1-hour cycle times. I wouldn't be surprised if Instacart's logistics costs were more than double this amount.

Re: Delivery Startups Are Back Like It’s 1999

#67

One of the more disappointing aspects of this go-around of delivery services is that they don't seem to have learned anything about logistics. Logistics is not just solving the Traveling Salesman problem. If I could miraculously solve a TSP in linear time, that would be an amazing accomplishment. But what good does it do you if the fixed costs of loading and unloading at each node are in the 5 minute range? That limi…

And yet, for the last 40 years, I've been able to get a pizza delivered to my house within a half hour window from a provider with miniscule market share for way less than $20.
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