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The new land of opportunity for immigrants is Germany

washingtonpost.com

11–20 of 92 posts

Re: The new land of opportunity for immigrants is Germany

#11

What is the chance of moving to Germany from the US without a college degree, but rather with five years industry experience and a handful of certifications, plus a good grasp of the German language? Would companies generally go for that, or would German authorities allow that?

As far as I can tell, you need to have a degree.

"Who can apply for the EU Blue Card: ...he or she has a German or an accredited foreign or a university degree that is comparable to a German one"

http://www.bluecard-eu.de/eu-blue-card-germany/

http://www.apply.eu/BlueCard/

Re: The new land of opportunity for immigrants is Germany

#12

What is the chance of moving to Germany from the US without a college degree, but rather with five years industry experience and a handful of certifications, plus a good grasp of the German language? Would companies generally go for that, or would German authorities allow that?

From what I saw companies (or at least startups) don't care much about diplomas. Experience is king in here.

It could be a problem with authorities though while getting a work visa. Don't have much data on that as it didn't matter for me (coming from another Schengen country).

Re: The new land of opportunity for immigrants is Germany

#13
post #3

The various sides of the immigration debate are talking past each other. This article describes a German program that takes high skill people like the architect profiled in the article, while those opposed to immigration are mainly concerned about the large numbers of low-skill people who are not interested in assimilating. The anti-immigrant folks in Britain and France aren't worried about Mr. Pinol. They're worried…

I think you might want to have a look at the opinion of UKIP - who mostly certainly do want to restrict immigration from EU countries to the UK:

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/despite-what-uki...

NB Personally I regard the right to live and work anywhere in the EU as a wonderful thing.

Re: The new land of opportunity for immigrants is Germany

#14
post #3

The various sides of the immigration debate are talking past each other. This article describes a German program that takes high skill people like the architect profiled in the article, while those opposed to immigration are mainly concerned about the large numbers of low-skill people who are not interested in assimilating. The anti-immigrant folks in Britain and France aren't worried about Mr. Pinol. They're worried…

The article does talk about African laborers and Bulgarian demolition crews. Not high-skilled work. Also "Angela Merkel... has spoken out against immigrants relocating here merely to tap generous domestic welfare benefits."

You're right that masses of low-skill immigrants is a problem, especially when they are not integrating with society. It seems Germany has this problem too ("And many Germans still call the lack of assimilation among Turkish immigrants a leading national problem.").

Your score is bouncing quite heavily, indicating that this is a controversial comment. You're not wrong though. The question I still have after reading the article is, how is Germany dealing with the low-skill immigration (or how effective is their vocation training and welfare system)? Can the US or UK implement similar plans with any success?

Re: The new land of opportunity for immigrants is Germany

#15

What is the chance of moving to Germany from the US without a college degree, but rather with five years industry experience and a handful of certifications, plus a good grasp of the German language? Would companies generally go for that, or would German authorities allow that?

I imagine they would. Ask your local embassy or something. My impression is that it's far easier to get in there than the US.

Re: The new land of opportunity for immigrants is Germany

#16
Excerpt:

“Berlin is different than other parts of Germany, and that’s why I think I can make it here,” he said. “It is more relaxed, more accepting than other German cities, and there is no pressure to behave a certain way.”

As I understand it, that would be something of a holdover from the cold war days when the culture there was unique due to it's odd political situation.

Re: The new land of opportunity for immigrants is Germany

#17
post #11

What is the chance of moving to Germany from the US without a college degree, but rather with five years industry experience and a handful of certifications, plus a good grasp of the German language? Would companies generally go for that, or would German authorities allow that?

As far as I can tell, you need to have a degree. "Who can apply for the EU Blue Card: ...he or she has a German or an accredited foreign or a university degree that is comparable to a German one" http://www.bluecard-eu.de/eu-blue-card-germany/ http://www.apply.eu/BlueCard/

Yeah, but that's just the blue card programme. There are of course more normal ways of immigrating.

Re: The new land of opportunity for immigrants is Germany

#18
post #3

The various sides of the immigration debate are talking past each other. This article describes a German program that takes high skill people like the architect profiled in the article, while those opposed to immigration are mainly concerned about the large numbers of low-skill people who are not interested in assimilating. The anti-immigrant folks in Britain and France aren't worried about Mr. Pinol. They're worried…

The article does talk about African laborers and Bulgarian demolition crews. Not high-skilled work. Also "Angela Merkel... has spoken out against immigrants relocating here merely to tap generous domestic welfare benefits." You're right that masses of low-skill immigrants is a problem, especially when they are not integrating with society. It seems Germany has this problem too ("And many Germans still call the lack o…

The Turkish "problem" is longstanding and kind on both sides as well. Many Turks are not that sure if they want to integrate into German society, and many Germans are not sure if they want them to either (though this sentiment is weaker than it once was). That produces a self-reinforcing situation.

Many of the current Turkish residents came during the 1960s as part of a guest-worker program [1], or are descended from those who did. The expectation was that they would be temporary workers (no path to citizenship) and eventually go home again. The program was closed in 1973, and the government spent much of the late '70s and '80s trying to encourage them to leave, more than encouraging them to integrate. There are many kids who've grown up 100% in Germany (some grandkids too) who aren't German citizens, and until very recently, were not encouraged to become citizens. (Germany does not have jus soli citizenship, and before a reform in 1999, it was also very difficult for someone not of German descent to naturalize.)

The fact that many Turks in Germany come from poor and highly conservative regions of Turkey (generally not Istanbul) doesn't help assimilation, of course. But it also doesn't help that the message for decades was that they aren't German and can't become German. And non-integration is complex, too. When Americans think of unintegrated Mexican immigrants, for example, they think first and foremost of Spanish speakers who can't speak English. But almost all the Turks considered unintegrated do speak German. Some (especially younger generations) don't even speak Turkish fluently (or at all), but only German.

Lots of these aren't German-specific problems, though. Since at least the late 19th century, European counties have been based on the ethnic nation-state, and transitioning to some idea that people can change nationalities, or even have more than one (and what that means) is slow and produces opposition.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gastarbeiter

Re: The new land of opportunity for immigrants is Germany

#19
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rent prices have definitely exploded and there are no signs that the upwards trend will stop anytime soon. Nevertheless they are still low compared to cities like London or Paris. Furthermore software developers in Berlin are in very high demand. If you speak English fluently and are a good software developer, getting a job in Berlin should be no problem.

What are examples?

For rents? There is a map available here: http://interaktiv.morgenpost.de/mietkarte-berlin/#2-1650

It's in German but it should be still fairly easy to understand. Basically average rent for a 72m^2 two bedroom apartment with a new constract is somewhere between 815€ and 1100€ within the SBahn ring.

If you are willing to share an apartment (which students generally do in Germany), you can usually get by with 300-400€ per month for rent.

Re: The new land of opportunity for immigrants is Germany

#20
post #3

The various sides of the immigration debate are talking past each other. This article describes a German program that takes high skill people like the architect profiled in the article, while those opposed to immigration are mainly concerned about the large numbers of low-skill people who are not interested in assimilating. The anti-immigrant folks in Britain and France aren't worried about Mr. Pinol. They're worried…

Is there something wrong with self-governance, as long as your rules don't violate the laws of the land?
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