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Google, it's time – We want Scala for Android

blog.madhukaraphatak.com

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Re: Google, it's time – We want Scala for Android

#81

Post by remon »

eklavya wrote: post #44
remon wrote: post #28

Who's "we"? How about we ask Google to focus on things the vast majority of Android developers actually want? Java 7/8 comes to mind. Even if we're looking for just an alternative Android dev language Scala probably wouldn't even be in the top 10.

What matrix are you using where Scala wouldn't make it in top 10? I would bet it would be one of the top choices.

Well I'll immediately admit my top 10 comment wasn't exactly based on comprehensive research and polling on the subject. That said I doubt that if such a poll would happen the results would place Scala anywhere near the top. There are just very few upsides for Google to do so. Their main reason for adding language support would be to broaden the developer base that is able to create Android applications and how many Scala developers do you know that aren't fluent in Java?

Re: Google, it's time – We want Scala for Android

#82

Post by smrtinsert »

phatak-dev wrote: post #26
pjmlp wrote: post #24

It is not going to happen. Google IO 2014, Android development fireside: https://www.google.com/events/io/schedule/session/85311b0e-7... The answer to this request is "Java is the official Android development language".

Direct link to the question https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3meJyiYWFw#t=1566

That wasn't linked correctly.

Re: Google, it's time – We want Scala for Android

#83

Post by 27182818284 »

eklavya wrote: post #44
remon wrote: post #28

Who's "we"? How about we ask Google to focus on things the vast majority of Android developers actually want? Java 7/8 comes to mind. Even if we're looking for just an alternative Android dev language Scala probably wouldn't even be in the top 10.

What matrix are you using where Scala wouldn't make it in top 10? I would bet it would be one of the top choices.

As a new Android developer Scala wouldn't remotely have come to my mind as a feature I wanted anytime soon. The Android Studio is still in beta, the ability to test different platforms with the simulator is less than great (poor) experience still on a MacBook Pro, and the vast majority of developers come out with iOS versions of their products before Android. Those three alone need massive attention before I would even remotely want Google to focus resources on Scala development.

Re: Google, it's time – We want Scala for Android

#84

Post by smrtinsert »

TeeWEE wrote: post #21
broodbucket wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because Scala has features that are tricky to get your head around if you're not familiar with functional programming, it doesn't mean it's complex to write software in. You can write Scala that's basically Java with less syntax if you want. I think that's what's so great about Scala, Python and other languages that mix OO and functional elements; you don't have to throw away Java and pick up Haskell, you can st…

It still doesnt change the fact that Scala, as a programming language, tries to incorporate too many concepts while still trying to be typesafe. This makes the language complex, and not an ideal candidate.

Why Scala encourages this type of comment I will never know.

Re: Google, it's time – We want Scala for Android

#85

Post by smrtinsert »

apendleton wrote: post #80
benburton wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no substantiative argument in this comment. > Scala, as a programming language, tries to incorporate too many concepts Too many concepts? Says who? How many concepts is too many? You don't have to use them all, and you can pick them up fairly easily as you go along; that's exactly how I learned the language. > while still trying to be typesafe. Not sure why that's contentious. > This makes the language comple…

> Says who? Says at least me and the OP, and probably others... I haven't put a ton of time into learning Scala and only occasionally interact with it, but in that capacity I'd definitely say I find it a bit intimidating and someone hard to read. Certainly there are many ways to write Scala, and a Java-like style is doable, but idiomatic Scala, as far as I've seen, encourages terseness and the use of opaque punctuati…

I'm a non expert in Scala and after a little learning it is extremely legible and provides many ways to clearify your syntax. If you're arguing that syntax should be obvious, I think that's a non starter in a technical argument. That's like believing that programming should be possible without programming.

Re: Google, it's time – We want Scala for Android

#86

Post by thawkins »

vorg wrote: post #58
pinkyand wrote: post #2

I agree that Google should add more languages to android. And while Scala is a great language, it's very complex - so it won't benefit many of the less skilled users. A better language would be something with the simplicity and power of python, but with good performance.Groovy could be one such language.

> Groovy could be one such language Android needs a statically typed language, but Groovy's dynamically typed, and the statically typed portions available via annotations since version 2.0 isn't really used much. Groovy's still usable for its original use case of manipulating and testing Java objects, and with Grails, but the more recently promoted stuff isn't being used in favor of other options, and even Gradle see…

Go would make a good candidate, given that it is also a google project.

Re: Google, it's time – We want Scala for Android

#87

Post by mgkimsal »

apendleton wrote: post #80
benburton wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no substantiative argument in this comment. > Scala, as a programming language, tries to incorporate too many concepts Too many concepts? Says who? How many concepts is too many? You don't have to use them all, and you can pick them up fairly easily as you go along; that's exactly how I learned the language. > while still trying to be typesafe. Not sure why that's contentious. > This makes the language comple…

> Says who? Says at least me and the OP, and probably others... I haven't put a ton of time into learning Scala and only occasionally interact with it, but in that capacity I'd definitely say I find it a bit intimidating and someone hard to read. Certainly there are many ways to write Scala, and a Java-like style is doable, but idiomatic Scala, as far as I've seen, encourages terseness and the use of opaque punctuati…

"I can look at Swift without having ever written any and know roughly what it's doing. I can't with Scala."

Gut feeling, Scala is the new Perl. At least with respect to 'idiomatic' Scala/Perl encouraging a terseness, as well as a fairly deep/loyal (if small) fan base. Also, many of the use cases where the language shines tend to be non-mainstream - usually other languages handle mundane 'every day' use cases differently, perhaps more verbosely, but also with a lot more developers on board.

Just a thought that popped in to my head. I've no doubt I've offended the very core of many Scala and Perl devs out there just now. ;)

Re: Google, it's time – We want Scala for Android

#88

Post by programminggeek »

I'm not sure the author understands why Java is the language in the first place - there is an army of developers who knows how to use Java. Yeah, it might not be the best language ever, but neither is C++ and neither is Scala.

For what Google is doing their choices were basically C++ or Java, there is no other embedded, performant option that hits mass quantities of developers worldwide. Every other language is either too niche, or not performant enough, or doesn't have the features you would want. Sure, I guess they could have done C#, but I'm pretty sure Google hates Microsoft, so that's not going to happen.

iOS only has Objective-C because of NextStep and OS X. Otherwise, it could very easily have had C++ or Java. Blackberry ended up with C++ for their native toolkit.

Has there been a significant mobile platform that wasn't C++ or Java that doesn't have some historical reason like Obj-C has behind it?

Re: Google, it's time – We want Scala for Android

#89

Post by saryant »

apendleton wrote: post #80
benburton wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no substantiative argument in this comment. > Scala, as a programming language, tries to incorporate too many concepts Too many concepts? Says who? How many concepts is too many? You don't have to use them all, and you can pick them up fairly easily as you go along; that's exactly how I learned the language. > while still trying to be typesafe. Not sure why that's contentious. > This makes the language comple…

> Says who? Says at least me and the OP, and probably others... I haven't put a ton of time into learning Scala and only occasionally interact with it, but in that capacity I'd definitely say I find it a bit intimidating and someone hard to read. Certainly there are many ways to write Scala, and a Java-like style is doable, but idiomatic Scala, as far as I've seen, encourages terseness and the use of opaque punctuati…

> but idiomatic Scala, as far as I've seen, encourages terseness and the use of opaque punctuation-laden operators

This is not idiomatic Scala.

http://docs.scala-lang.org/style/naming-conventions.html#sym...

> Avoid! [...] As a general rule, symbolic method names should be well-understood and self documenting in nature. The rule of thumb is as follows: if you need to explain what the method does, then it should have a real, descriptive name rather than a symbols. There are some very rare cases where it is acceptable to invent new symbolic method names. Odds are, your API is not one of those cases!

Re: Google, it's time – We want Scala for Android

#90

Post by ibebrett »

27182818284 wrote: post #83
eklavya wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What matrix are you using where Scala wouldn't make it in top 10? I would bet it would be one of the top choices.

As a new Android developer Scala wouldn't remotely have come to my mind as a feature I wanted anytime soon. The Android Studio is still in beta, the ability to test different platforms with the simulator is less than great (poor) experience still on a MacBook Pro, and the vast majority of developers come out with iOS versions of their products before Android. Those three alone need massive attention before I would ev…

Scala is an immensely popular jvm language (as far as jvm langaugesg go). That's why it would be a good candidate.
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