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Inside the Dark, Lucrative World of Consumer Debt Collection

nytimes.com

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Re: Inside the Dark, Lucrative World of Consumer Debt Collection

#251

Post by mthoms »

thisjepisje wrote: post #238
blhack wrote: post #34

This is one of the most unbelievable articles I've ever read. If you didn't read it all the way through, do so over lunch or something; it's amazing. The idea of "millions of dollars" worth of debt being traded for around on thumb drives, and that all those thumb drives really contain are excel spreadsheets is mind boggling . Those people in those spreadsheets are real people , and they're being completely duhumanize…

I don't understand what you find so shocking about financial data from lots of people in excel sheets.

... Being sold (and stolen by) a largely unregulated industry consisting mostly of ex-felons and thugs who do their deals in parking lots on a no-questions asked basis.

We're talking about very sensitive info like SSN's, DOB's, home address, work history and so on.

There's nothing shocking about that at all? Honestly, did you read the article?

Re: Inside the Dark, Lucrative World of Consumer Debt Collection

#252

Post by wtbob »

It's a bit of a pipe dream, but it seems to me that this is a perfect use-case for digital signatures. If I sign over debt to Bill, and he signed it over to Jim and Nancy, and then Jim collects it and Nancy signs it over to Stu, and then Stu find that it's already been collected, then Stu and Jim can compare provenances and sue/beat-up/whatever Bill.

The real question is how to make digital signatures work for people at that level. That's a really tough question; I don't have the answer there. Maybe Excel could have some sort of row-signature cell type, which could stack (e.g. First Martian Bank would sign each row upon issuance, then each seller would just sign it again). It'd be even better if it weren't just a statically-signed document, but could also document stuff like 'Joe Smith paid down $320 in principal.'

Gosh, almost sounds like Bitcoin or a similar protocol would make sense here …

Re: Inside the Dark, Lucrative World of Consumer Debt Collection

#253

Post by wtbob »

forca wrote: post #63
ams6110 wrote: post #26

I was called by a collector once. Old medical bill, the clinic had sent it to an old address and the mail forwarding had expired. Why they never called or tracked me down I don't know, but they eventually sold it to a collector who had no trouble finding my phone number. When they called I was confused at first, then remembered and realized it was legit, paid it, end of story. They were utterly professional and court…

Medical debt rankles me like nothing else. The US, supposedly the most advanced nation on Earth has the worst notion of all: health care for profit. Simply evil. Health care is a basic human right. Full stop. Health care should never be based on one's ability to pay. Never. I pray I see socialised medicine in the US in my lifetime. If Hilary Clinton gets elected, the push for this will be stronger than the thin edge…

> The US, supposedly the most advanced nation on Earth has the worst notion of all: health care for profit.

I presume that in your socialist medical system doctors, nurses, drug chemists, medical feathers and so forth would still get paid, right? Guess what? That's profit.

There's plenty wrong with our health care system. Much of it is due to the insurance idea. Much of it is regulatory. Much of it is structural. Single payer wouldn't really address any of that (not even the insurance bit: it'd be insurance writ large). What we need is for everyone to pay for what he receives, with charity/welfare for the indigent. It works for food; it works for medicine.

Re: Inside the Dark, Lucrative World of Consumer Debt Collection

#254

Post by nerfhammer »

danboarder wrote: post #209
CMCDragonkai wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's really smart. Do banks have some way of detecting if the buyer isn't associated with the debtor?

Your observation reminds me of the http://rollingjubilee.org project that buys up consumer debt for pennies on the dollar and then simply cancels it.

Does the debtor owe taxes on amount cancelled?

Re: Inside the Dark, Lucrative World of Consumer Debt Collection

#255

Post by Iftheshoefits »

a8da6b0c91d wrote: post #201
learc83 wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying paying extra is feasible for someone without much money, but this whole comment thread was a response to one guy who basically said credit doesn't matter much if you aren't poor. Going with the implicit assumption that we're talking about someone who's making a pretty good bit of money, but who has a bad credit rating, I'm only arguing that it's not impossible to rent an apartment. I love your blog by…

I'm not rich. I make about 150 right now, which around here isn't much. I am just informing you cowed bougie woosies that your "oh noes my credit report" panics are not grounded in reality. If you pay your legit bills on time and make a solid living, credit is not a valid concern when someone is trying to fuck you. In cities like Philadelphia and Baltimore most of the households are chronically arrears on utilities.…

> I almost get the sense that upper middle class nerds have no idea how most of society actually operates.... Oh, the irony. Unless, of course, you meant to lump yourself in with the "clueless" upper middle class. $150k/yr is actually beyond middle class. That's affluent, at minimum. It's not "rich" in the sense that the average person earning that income could just stop working whenever he wanted, but for a single person that's top 5% territory, and for a family it's top 10%.

For what it's worth, my household income, including passive income from rental property, is north of $200k. I know very well what having a high income affords. I've also been on the other end of the spectrum, near homeless when my impoverished single mother was raising me and my brother. I'll be blunt: you're the clueless one here. You have no idea what you're talking about, and your comments make you seem out of touch and, frankly, a bit gormless.

Re: Inside the Dark, Lucrative World of Consumer Debt Collection

#256

Post by sanderjd »

osamet67 wrote: post #213
sanderjd wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reminds me a lot of when the department of education sold my student loans to a couple private firms. Out of the blue, I just received a couple emails from a couple companies I've never heard of asking me to give them all my information (including my SSN) in order to create an account. I deleted them immediately, assuming there was a new phishing scheme in vogue, and didn't realize what had happened until I chec…

Something's missing here - who actually paid the loan?

Sorry, wasn't clear. When the private lender bought the debt, it showed up in my original account as a payment in full. But of course it had just been transferred elsewhere.

Re: Inside the Dark, Lucrative World of Consumer Debt Collection

#257

Post by UrMomReadsHN »

michaelochurch wrote: post #186
UrMomReadsHN wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is something you might not understand or know. Nowadays your credit score affects more than you realize. It used in many places as a measure of trustworthiness. You can have trouble renting an apartment (depending on the market and landlord) with debt that went to collection. Also you pay more in insurance premiums. Your potential employer may pull your credit report as part of a background check and decide not…

Your potential employer may pull your credit report as part of a background check and decide not to hire you because you didn't feel like paying your debt. In many jurisdictions, they have to disclose that they're doing so. Fake a competing "exploding" offer to put time pressure on them. They'll write you an offer (if they're interested) quickly. Then, if they rescind the offer later because they don't like what they…

Really? This would never work. Every job offer I ever got says "this offer is continent upon passing background/credit check."

You got it backwards anyways. It isn't run background check -> Offer job it is Offer job -> Run background check. Offer job is always first.

Re: Inside the Dark, Lucrative World of Consumer Debt Collection

#258

Post by ohitsdom »

sanderjd wrote: post #153
kazinator wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are totally right! +1. The article had me at "stolen". If you owe a bit of money, some of the dipshits that call you may actually have misappropriated the collection account and are not connected to the original debtor in any way, who did not receive and will not receive a red cent. This passing of the buck helps to explain why numerous agencies may be involved: people get calls from various toms, dicks and harry…

This reminds me a lot of when the department of education sold my student loans to a couple private firms. Out of the blue, I just received a couple emails from a couple companies I've never heard of asking me to give them all my information (including my SSN) in order to create an account. I deleted them immediately, assuming there was a new phishing scheme in vogue, and didn't realize what had happened until I chec…

Curious, what did you end up doing? Did you pay the firm who bought your debt?

Re: Inside the Dark, Lucrative World of Consumer Debt Collection

#259

Post by kambo »

einrealist wrote: post #207
blhack wrote: post #34

This is one of the most unbelievable articles I've ever read. If you didn't read it all the way through, do so over lunch or something; it's amazing. The idea of "millions of dollars" worth of debt being traded for around on thumb drives, and that all those thumb drives really contain are excel spreadsheets is mind boggling . Those people in those spreadsheets are real people , and they're being completely duhumanize…

This should be regulated. If debt can be bought for 1/12 of the actual debt, that debt should be cut to that 1/12 as well!

Then nobody would want to buy it. Why would you buy something to resell or cash in on if there was no hope of making a profit?

I still prefer this system to debtor's prison. It sucks that good people have bad luck and become vulnerable to things like this. No matter what the rules are, however, somebody will eventually game it.

Re: Inside the Dark, Lucrative World of Consumer Debt Collection

#260

Post by Swannie »

mthoms wrote: post #251
thisjepisje wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand what you find so shocking about financial data from lots of people in excel sheets.

... Being sold (and stolen by) a largely unregulated industry consisting mostly of ex-felons and thugs who do their deals in parking lots on a no-questions asked basis. We're talking about very sensitive info like SSN's, DOB's, home address, work history and so on. There's nothing shocking about that at all? Honestly, did you read the article?

Nothing shocking - a little surprising, definitely disturbing.

The lack of regulation is the most surprising thing, and the lack of interest from the US federal government to do much about it is disturbing.

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