Unschooling: The Case for Setting Your Kids Into the Wild • Hacker News Board

Re: Unschooling: The Case for Setting Your Kids Into the Wild

#71

Post by learc83 » Sun, Aug 17, 2014, 6:27 AM UTC

samirmenon wrote: post #44

fchollet wrote: post #13

The fundamental problem with the elementary school system in the west is that kids are given no room for self-direction whatsoever; school for them is de facto a part-time prison or "labor" camp. As a result they are trained by association to dread to that which the system purports to champion: learning, culture, reading, knowledge, even any demonstration of intelligence. It takes a combination of luck, will and posi…

Perhaps I am clouded by my own positive experiences with school, but I disagree on two levels. Firstly, your use of the phrase 'in the west' implies that outside of the 'west' there is some different, better elementary education system. This has not been my experience in India, where capacity for rote memorization is regarded as equivalent to intelligence from an early age. What countries fit your boundaries of 'the…

> In fact, I think the social interaction with other children of similar age is extremely important to developing social skills and friendships.

But is putting 30 kids together in a room with one adult the right way to do it?

I question the belief that school is necessary for socialization. Obviously home school for everyone isn't an option, but there are plenty of studies that show home schooled children turn out just as well off or better. So where is the evidence that socialization in a school environment is necessary or even beneficial.

Re: Unschooling: The Case for Setting Your Kids Into the Wild

#72

Post by fred_durst » Sun, Aug 17, 2014, 6:30 AM UTC

droithomme wrote: post #12

fred_durst wrote: post #3

> At the time, my father—who earned his undergraduate degree at Cornell and his master’s at Johns Hopkins Nothing cooler than rich kids taking all their advantages they were given and use them to live like paupers with zero concern for the the world around them. > I can report that Fin and Rye both learned to read and write with essentially zero instruction, albeit when they were about eight years old, a year or so l…

> Nothing cooler than rich kids taking all their advantages The author's father worked for the state department of education and his mother was a substitute teacher. What evidence do you have that they are rich as you claim? > I shouldn't be so sarcastic about child abuse Child abuse is a serious accusation. Please state the evidence you have that there is child abuse and the steps you have taken to report your perso…

I absolutely disagree that this type of "home schooling" should be legal. I do believe it is child abuse. These people should be treated just any parent that does not enroll their child in school. And I think they should have their kids placed in state custody and not even considered letting their children back in their care until they have had a full psychiatric evaluation.

It's true that these parents are likely sick and need mental health treatment. Maybe I should have more sympathy for them, but I think about the poor kids and about how lucky I was to have parents who cared more about their children than some crazy ideology.

Re: Unschooling: The Case for Setting Your Kids Into the Wild

#73

Post by fred_durst » Sun, Aug 17, 2014, 6:34 AM UTC

barry-cotter wrote: post #21

fred_durst wrote: post #3

> At the time, my father—who earned his undergraduate degree at Cornell and his master’s at Johns Hopkins Nothing cooler than rich kids taking all their advantages they were given and use them to live like paupers with zero concern for the the world around them. > I can report that Fin and Rye both learned to read and write with essentially zero instruction, albeit when they were about eight years old, a year or so l…

>This thing is full of gems. I shouldn't be so sarcastic about child abuse, but I just can't help it. I've met far too many of these clowns in my life. If you actually believe these children are being abused I'm sure that you can call CPS on their parents. If not, the only way you could make a "joke" in worse taste would be to imply paedophilia. >Nothing cooler than rich kids taking all their advantages they were giv…

> They own their farm

> barely above the poverty line.

Doesn't really add up. Any guesses on how much a farm in Vermont costs? It's not cheap. Big hunch the money for that farm came from someone else. Most likely an inheritance.

Re: Unschooling: The Case for Setting Your Kids Into the Wild

#74

Post by DanBC » Sun, Aug 17, 2014, 6:34 AM UTC

OmarIsmail wrote: post #68

samirmenon wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the elementary educational system truly "damaging" to young minds? I think of my elementary education (which, mind you, was only 6 years ago) as perhaps boring or tedious in some areas (like math, for me), while also exciting and rewarding in others (science, learning to make friends, deal with gossip, etc). I certainly don't think I have a very 'damaged' method of thought now because of my elementary education. I…

Not sure how accurate your profile is, but if you're still 16 and thus in high-school you may not appreciate just how different the real world is. And that exactly is why it is so damaging. In school there are a small number of people that are given authority over a huge swath of your life completely arbitrarily. This affects how you act and spend your time. This is completely opposite to how things work in the real…

> But if that person is/would be better, then you can argue that your current self is damaged relatively speaking.

That's a weird interpretation of personal development.

Re: Unschooling: The Case for Setting Your Kids Into the Wild

#75

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Aug 17, 2014, 6:37 AM UTC

OmarIsmail wrote: post #68

samirmenon wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the elementary educational system truly "damaging" to young minds? I think of my elementary education (which, mind you, was only 6 years ago) as perhaps boring or tedious in some areas (like math, for me), while also exciting and rewarding in others (science, learning to make friends, deal with gossip, etc). I certainly don't think I have a very 'damaged' method of thought now because of my elementary education. I…

Not sure how accurate your profile is, but if you're still 16 and thus in high-school you may not appreciate just how different the real world is. And that exactly is why it is so damaging. In school there are a small number of people that are given authority over a huge swath of your life completely arbitrarily. This affects how you act and spend your time. This is completely opposite to how things work in the real…

[deleted]

Re: Unschooling: The Case for Setting Your Kids Into the Wild

#76

Post by DanBC » Sun, Aug 17, 2014, 6:37 AM UTC

samirmenon wrote: post #50

tatterdemalion wrote: post #45

I don't understand how, on a site called "Hacker News," so many people seem oblivious to how damaging the primary educational system is to young peoples' minds and methods of thought. Unschooling doesn't mean not teaching children: that's what happens in schools.

Is the elementary educational system truly "damaging" to young minds? I think of my elementary education (which, mind you, was only 6 years ago) as perhaps boring or tedious in some areas (like math, for me), while also exciting and rewarding in others (science, learning to make friends, deal with gossip, etc). I certainly don't think I have a very 'damaged' method of thought now because of my elementary education. I…

The fact that you use anecdote to support a position might be evidence that your schooling did damage you. Your position would be more convincing if it had taught you about bias and about using reputable sources to support your argument. :-)

Re: Unschooling: The Case for Setting Your Kids Into the Wild

#77

Post by baddox » Sun, Aug 17, 2014, 6:38 AM UTC

samirmenon wrote: post #50

tatterdemalion wrote: post #45

I don't understand how, on a site called "Hacker News," so many people seem oblivious to how damaging the primary educational system is to young peoples' minds and methods of thought. Unschooling doesn't mean not teaching children: that's what happens in schools.

Is the elementary educational system truly "damaging" to young minds? I think of my elementary education (which, mind you, was only 6 years ago) as perhaps boring or tedious in some areas (like math, for me), while also exciting and rewarding in others (science, learning to make friends, deal with gossip, etc). I certainly don't think I have a very 'damaged' method of thought now because of my elementary education. I…

> Is the elementary educational system truly "damaging" to young minds?

I think so, and not just because some schools fail to provide a decent core education on the primary subjects. Obviously, many public schools do provide a reasonable core education (I got a pretty decent one, although Wikipedia sure helped). I'm more worried about the culture of schools and how kids are taught to think about creativity, authority, society, etc.

Re: Unschooling: The Case for Setting Your Kids Into the Wild

#78

Post by baddox » Sun, Aug 17, 2014, 6:40 AM UTC

JDDunn9 wrote: post #17

Seriously? If unschooling were so great 3rd world countries would be dominating the world. Creativity is domain specific. Walking around the woods won't help you be creative in solving math/engineering/science problems. You need a strong background in the subject, and to see how other people solved similar problems. I feel bad for these kids as their future is being pigeon-holed. Who's going to hire someone who's edu…

> If unschooling were so great 3rd world countries would be dominating the world.

Except that they don't have easy access to books or the Internet. And also food.

Re: Unschooling: The Case for Setting Your Kids Into the Wild

#79

Post by ekianjo » Sun, Aug 17, 2014, 6:43 AM UTC

fchollet wrote: post #13

The fundamental problem with the elementary school system in the west is that kids are given no room for self-direction whatsoever; school for them is de facto a part-time prison or "labor" camp. As a result they are trained by association to dread to that which the system purports to champion: learning, culture, reading, knowledge, even any demonstration of intelligence. It takes a combination of luck, will and posi…

> elementary school system in the west is that kids are given no room for self-direction

To be fair this is happening not just in the West. Japan's education system is a disaster in itself which creates kids who stop asking questions after a couple of years. I let you imagine what you end up when they reach the state of adulthood.

Re: Unschooling: The Case for Setting Your Kids Into the Wild

#80

Post by seanmcdirmid » Sun, Aug 17, 2014, 6:44 AM UTC

fred_durst wrote: post #73

barry-cotter wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This thing is full of gems. I shouldn't be so sarcastic about child abuse, but I just can't help it. I've met far too many of these clowns in my life. If you actually believe these children are being abused I'm sure that you can call CPS on their parents. If not, the only way you could make a "joke" in worse taste would be to imply paedophilia. >Nothing cooler than rich kids taking all their advantages they were giv…

> They own their farm > barely above the poverty line. Doesn't really add up. Any guesses on how much a farm in Vermont costs? It's not cheap. Big hunch the money for that farm came from someone else. Most likely an inheritance.

An asset is not necessarily liquid; also plenty have people have negative net worthy.