George Orwell's review of Mein Kampf (1940) • Hacker News Board

Re: George Orwell's review of Mein Kampf (1940)

#91

Post by PythonicAlpha » Sun, Aug 17, 2014, 3:44 AM UTC

mtdewcmu wrote: post #40

PythonicAlpha wrote: post #9

"Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it." George Santayana Somebody asked, why this document is so high up-voted. I would say, we can't up-vote it enough, when we have the chance to learn from history and especially from the dark sides of history and from people like George Orwell. Chance is very big, that a new era of darkness could fall on humanity, if we don't stop it at the right time (and no…

I actually don't foresee another Hitler rising, because the first Hitler ruined it for all future Hitlers. I think what was most damning was the manner in which Germany lost the war. If I thought it was mainly Hitler's values and racism, I would not feel as safe. Hitler bet big on war and he lost in spectacular fashion. I think he forever associated that style of leadership with catastrophe.

How do you know, how the next "Hitler" will look like? Do you think a "Hitler" has to have a funny mustache and behave like in the caricatures?

Has a totalitarian state always to come with a crazy person? How about a group of people, how about a system, where you don't see "one big dictator"?

The people in the 30s also did not foresee another big dictator rising. Other parties in Germany for example thought, they could "tame" Hitler.

Re: George Orwell's review of Mein Kampf (1940)

#92

Post by mcantelon » Sun, Aug 17, 2014, 3:44 AM UTC

confluence wrote: post #43

lisper wrote: post #28

This sent chills down my spine: "He [Hitler] had crushed the German labor movement and for that the property-owning classes were willing to forgive him almost anything. Both left and right concurred ... that National Socialism was merely a version of Conservatism. Plus ca change...

... plus c'est la même chose. The funny thing is that many conservatives think National Socialism was "socialism", when in fact it was just their very own hard right conservatism. Tea Party and Republican candidates are where the Hitlers of the future will probably arise from. > Down with immigration! Up with capital! Be a real American! Welcome to the past. Edit: I see the fascists have discovered my comment. Down v…

How do you know the next Hitler will come from the right wing? Left wing leaders have also racked up big death tolls purging and reordering society under the guise of progressive ideals.

Mao's leadership led to the death of 45 million:

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/news/m...

Stalin killed an estimated 20 million:

http://www.ibtimes.com/how-many-people-did-joseph-stalin-kil...

Pol Pot killed 1.4 million+:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmer_Rouge

Re: George Orwell's review of Mein Kampf (1940)

#93

Post by increment_i » Sun, Aug 17, 2014, 3:56 AM UTC

andrewfong wrote: post #83

adventured wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amazing to me that, in all likelihood, had Hitler decided to call it quits earlier, the world would have sat back and allowed him to keep some of his conquests (eg Denmark, Norway or Belgium). Today it would be unthinkable to allow a large nation to invade Belgium with no counter international military response.

Perhaps not Belgium, but consider eastern Ukraine.

OK so any large nation that isn't Russia, China, Great Britain or the United States.

Re: George Orwell's review of Mein Kampf (1940)

#94

Post by Tomte » Sun, Aug 17, 2014, 4:09 AM UTC

kszx wrote: post #31

Theodores wrote: post #19

Has anyone here actually read Mein Kampf? Doing so is probably banned in Germany and I am not sure what there is other than kiddie porn or some al-qaeda training manual that you totally would not want in your browsing history. There could come a time when no living person has read Mein Kampf and nobody would know first hand why it is wrong.

The annotated version is legal, the unannotated version is illegal.

No version is illegal in Germany. You may buy it, you may own it, you may read it, you may sell it.

Re: George Orwell's review of Mein Kampf (1940)

#95

Post by Intermernet » Sun, Aug 17, 2014, 4:10 AM UTC

ehmorris wrote: post #70

scrollaway wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unrelated to the matter but since you work at genius, can you talk to the geniuses (sic) who thought that hijacking text highlight was a good idea? A lot of us speed readers use text highlight to read along. It is easier on the eyes and the brain. So please don't hijack it.

For technical reasons: we want to allow users to annotate arbitrary segments of text, so what better (or other) way is there than adding an annotate button to highlighted text? For philosophical reasons: genius is about annotating text, and as a result, about close reading. We'd rather optimize for a close read than a speed read.

It seems everyone would be happy if the annotate button didn't overlap the highlighted text.

Would it be possible to move the button just to the right of the highlighted block? Then speed-readers don't get hindered, and the annotate functionality remains usable.

Re: George Orwell's review of Mein Kampf (1940)

#96

Post by CamperBob2 » Sun, Aug 17, 2014, 4:10 AM UTC

scrollaway wrote: post #49

ehmorris wrote: post #7

If you guys know a lot about the period, I just transcribed it on Genius and I'd appreciate some help annotating it: http://history.genius.com/George-orwell-review-of-mein-kampf... (full disclosure I work at Genius.)

Unrelated to the matter but since you work at genius, can you talk to the geniuses (sic) who thought that hijacking text highlight was a good idea? A lot of us speed readers use text highlight to read along. It is easier on the eyes and the brain. So please don't hijack it.

Sounds like you'd be happier reading it somewhere else.

Re: George Orwell's review of Mein Kampf (1940)

#97

Post by confluence » Sun, Aug 17, 2014, 4:12 AM UTC

mcantelon wrote: post #92

confluence wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... plus c'est la même chose. The funny thing is that many conservatives think National Socialism was "socialism", when in fact it was just their very own hard right conservatism. Tea Party and Republican candidates are where the Hitlers of the future will probably arise from. > Down with immigration! Up with capital! Be a real American! Welcome to the past. Edit: I see the fascists have discovered my comment. Down v…

How do you know the next Hitler will come from the right wing? Left wing leaders have also racked up big death tolls purging and reordering society under the guise of progressive ideals. Mao's leadership led to the death of 45 million: http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/news/m... Stalin killed an estimated 20 million: http://www.ibtimes.com/how-many-people-did-joseph-stalin-kil... Pol Pot killed 1.…

In my original response I stated that National Socialism wasn't actually comprised of left wing socialists, but rather hard right fascists, and go on and on about how conservatives completely misrepresent this stuff all the time, and in the very next response to that comment, you do the exact same thing that I was lamenting?

Ah yes the great "leftist" Mao, so "left" wing, he purged everyone who disagreed with him (McCarthy?). Ah yes Stalin, "left" wing extraordinaire with his extermination and enslavement of Russian minorities (The Conservative American South?). Pol Pot, such a "left" wing hippy he was a jack booted military thug (Brownshirts?).

Re: George Orwell's review of Mein Kampf (1940)

#98

Post by Tomte » Sun, Aug 17, 2014, 4:19 AM UTC

Theodores wrote: post #19

Has anyone here actually read Mein Kampf? Doing so is probably banned in Germany and I am not sure what there is other than kiddie porn or some al-qaeda training manual that you totally would not want in your browsing history. There could come a time when no living person has read Mein Kampf and nobody would know first hand why it is wrong.

It is not banned in Germany, though there obviously exists a stromg social stigma if you chose to display it in your living room.

The legal situation is this:

The free state of Bavaria has inherited Hitler's assets. Including the copyright to My Kampf.

Bavaria does not allow any reprints, unless for scientific purposes with commentary alongside the text. Obviously publishers abroad don't always care about that.

(Interestingly, publication in the US and England is actually legal, since the rights to publish in English were sold long before Hitler's death).

Other than that copyright issue there is no legal mechanism in place to ban Mein Kampf. People have been buying, bequeathing and selling unannotated versions (of which there are many around, the Third Reich isn't some fantastically distant past, after all!) without problems.

The question that has been popping up in political circles every now and then and that has reached some urgency now is how to proceed.

There are people calling for special legislative action, but I doubt it's coming.

Re: George Orwell's review of Mein Kampf (1940)

#99

Post by Intermernet » Sun, Aug 17, 2014, 4:24 AM UTC

orionblastar wrote: post #71

lisper wrote: post #28

This sent chills down my spine: "He [Hitler] had crushed the German labor movement and for that the property-owning classes were willing to forgive him almost anything. Both left and right concurred ... that National Socialism was merely a version of Conservatism. Plus ca change...

Correct me if I am wrong, but conservatism doesn't have the social programs that Hitler had. Conservatism doesn't send people to concentration camps and then mass murder them. I think this thread has reached a Godwin level. Both may be right-wing but: Hitler supported abortion, gun control, big government, and other things the conservatives claim to be against. To simply say conservatives = Hitler because both are ri…

I agree with you that this argument has little to do with conservatism vs. liberalism, but to state "Conservatism doesn't send people to concentration camps" is ignoring some glaring realities, unless you want to be really selective about the definition of a concentration camp.

Is Gitmo a concentration camp? How about Manus Island? Azouli Prison? These "detention centers" are full of people put there by both conservatives and self-labelled "liberals".

Left / Right, Conservative / Liberal, etc. don't really matter if the people in charge are just aligning themselves with these ideologies for political gain. I think you'll find that the politically opposed leaders of the world have more in common with each-other than they do with the average members of the populations they represent.

Re: George Orwell's review of Mein Kampf (1940)

#100

Post by robryan » Sun, Aug 17, 2014, 4:41 AM UTC

andrewfong wrote: post #83

adventured wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amazing to me that, in all likelihood, had Hitler decided to call it quits earlier, the world would have sat back and allowed him to keep some of his conquests (eg Denmark, Norway or Belgium). Today it would be unthinkable to allow a large nation to invade Belgium with no counter international military response.

Perhaps not Belgium, but consider eastern Ukraine.

And the Russia of today in relative terms is weaker than WW2 Germany militarily.

The US is looking to disengage as much as possible from global conflicts. I think that they would be extremely reluctant to be pulled into a head on war against Russia/ China over a lot of 3rd countries.