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Cell Phone Guide For US Protesters, Updated 2014 Edition

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Re: Cell Phone Guide For US Protesters, Updated 2014 Edition

#41
post #3

A key thing is to memorize or write-on-your-arm-in-ink the phone number of your lawyer or other support person in the event you're arrested; you may not have access to your phone. (The only numbers I can recall offhand are Apple's customer support number from 20 years ago (which is now a phone-sex line), a special/other "in case of kidnapping" number which is an Iraqi cellphone and disconnected or something, and Comc…

Is that really necessary? It's not like the police can say, well, you don't have the phone number of a lawyer immediately accessible, so we'll just deny you your fundamental right to have one.

I guess you might end up spending more time in jail than if you can get someone to help get you out, or something like that, but you're not going to be railroaded to trial just because you didn't prepare a lawyer in advance, as long as you assert your right to have one present.

Re: Cell Phone Guide For US Protesters, Updated 2014 Edition

#42
post #23

* Don't use any technology before, during or after a protest. * Wear something that you can throw away. * Don't wear recognizable brands or symbols. * Hide your face. * Cover every visible part of your skin. Protests and riots are all fun and games until you are part of the last roundup and you finally have time to figure out that protesting will never change anything to what you are protesting against.

> protesting will never change anything I'm sure the British said the same thing in 1775.

Protesting didn't really change anything there. A long campaign of organized violence did. There are far better examples of effective protests than the American revolution.

Re: Cell Phone Guide For US Protesters, Updated 2014 Edition

#43
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pay heed to this advice. Never consent to be questioned by an officer of the law without a lawyer if they suspect you of wrong doing. Even if you are innocent no good can come of it. I am not advocating getting a lawyer if you are a witness to a crime. Simply if they have it in their minds you have done something wrong politely tell them you will gladly answer all of their questions once you have proper legal counsel…

Assuming you can afford it (a big assumption, but probably the case for most people here), would it not be wise to have a lawyer present when talking to the police even if you're just a witness? The legal system is complicated and you can go from "witness" to "suspect" real quick if you're unlucky.

I'm going to expand upon this sub-thread to comment upon what I observed as one of the tyrannies of the U.S. legal system. Many are poorly able to or unable to afford the legal counsel they would need to competently navigate it.

In the criminal sphere, the motto (slogan, who knows what real strength it has, these days) "Innocent until proven guilty" was presented and meant by at least some as a counter-balance to such demands. Presumption of innocence was... well, at least "presumed" to mean that the system would work on your behalf towards an accurate resolution rather than just a convenient one.

Contrary to this, however, note that a validated and often employed legal strategy is to simply spend the opposing party into defeat. (Or, threaten to do so.) This happens in the civil arena. It also happens in the criminal arena, where the State can choose to bring relatively unlimited resources to bear against an individual opponent. (We are, as the general public, increasingly learning just how little oversight and restraint is exercised in how this is employed.)

They may not have to "prove" anything. Employing a litany of court dates, expert witnesses, appeals, etc., they can simply "run out the clock" of their opponent's financial resources (to mix my metaphors). Further, in the criminal sphere, we continue to learn more and to read and hear about just how far off the rails surveillance, unwarranted search, entrapment, interrogation, etc. can go.

Then, we also have the increasing use of forfeiture to peremptorily seize resources with no opportunity for defense. The increasingly broad and inappropriate use of no-knock search warrants that physically threaten well-being. Swat-ification that is turning policing into militarized occupation and further separating the police from the community...

Whose fault is this? Probably all of ours. Regardless, it is turning the legal system, for the general public, from something to respect to something to fear. It is not "our system", anymore, but "theirs". For various values of "theirs".

Not a good recipe for a society "based upon law".

P.S. I should add that I recognize what others say, that the U.S. is still comparatively quite good compared to many other places in the world.

But I worry about the delta. As well as persistent... "outliers" than do not seem to improve nor resolve. And than may be far more extensive than we, the "general public", were once led to believe.

Re: Cell Phone Guide For US Protesters, Updated 2014 Edition

#44
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you already have an Android phone, I guess the RedPhone app is the most convenient and cheap way to make encrypted voice calls. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.thoughtcri...

The other party you called must use Android phone + RedPhone app as well.

Redphone can talk to iPhone users with the signal app.

Re: Cell Phone Guide For US Protesters, Updated 2014 Edition

#45
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pay heed to this advice. Never consent to be questioned by an officer of the law without a lawyer if they suspect you of wrong doing. Even if you are innocent no good can come of it. I am not advocating getting a lawyer if you are a witness to a crime. Simply if they have it in their minds you have done something wrong politely tell them you will gladly answer all of their questions once you have proper legal counsel…

Assuming you can afford it (a big assumption, but probably the case for most people here), would it not be wise to have a lawyer present when talking to the police even if you're just a witness? The legal system is complicated and you can go from "witness" to "suspect" real quick if you're unlucky.

Just use a little sense. If you buddy suddenly beats someone up, there is a chance they pin you as an accomplice.

If you see some old lady get robbed, that's not coming back on you.

Also, if the police don't put you under custody, you don't get Miranda rights and you don't get the right to a lawyer necessarily. You'd have to pay one yourself.

Re: Cell Phone Guide For US Protesters, Updated 2014 Edition

#47
post #9
post #3

A key thing is to memorize or write-on-your-arm-in-ink the phone number of your lawyer or other support person in the event you're arrested; you may not have access to your phone. (The only numbers I can recall offhand are Apple's customer support number from 20 years ago (which is now a phone-sex line), a special/other "in case of kidnapping" number which is an Iraqi cellphone and disconnected or something, and Comc…

> Apple's customer support number from 20 years ago (which is now a phone-sex line), no, 800-SOS-APPL is still Apple's old support line. You are dialing S-zero-S, which has always been a phone sex line.

+1 800 776 2333 is the number I meant (which was how I got to apple dev stuff back in ~1993 when I was 14 and had nothing else to do)

Re: Cell Phone Guide For US Protesters, Updated 2014 Edition

#48
post #41
post #3

A key thing is to memorize or write-on-your-arm-in-ink the phone number of your lawyer or other support person in the event you're arrested; you may not have access to your phone. (The only numbers I can recall offhand are Apple's customer support number from 20 years ago (which is now a phone-sex line), a special/other "in case of kidnapping" number which is an Iraqi cellphone and disconnected or something, and Comc…

Is that really necessary? It's not like the police can say, well, you don't have the phone number of a lawyer immediately accessible, so we'll just deny you your fundamental right to have one. I guess you might end up spending more time in jail than if you can get someone to help get you out, or something like that, but you're not going to be railroaded to trial just because you didn't prepare a lawyer in advance, as…

The point is to let people know ASAP that you've been taken, and to get out on bail ASAP. I agree it won't prevent you from getting a lawyer at trial, but I personally think spending time in jail is highly distasteful and something I'd like to minimize. (I've never actually been arrested, though, and my only time in jails or prisons has been fixing medical equipment in them.)

Re: Cell Phone Guide For US Protesters, Updated 2014 Edition

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need to have a lawyer, or the name of a lawyer, to ask to speak to your lawyer. The act of asking for one gives you protections: it is improper for the police to question you after you've asked for one before a lawyer is there. If you've been arrested, you'll consult with a state appointed lawyer before your arraignment, but generally arraignments are purely procedural and after one you'll either be release…

Pay heed to this advice. Never consent to be questioned by an officer of the law without a lawyer if they suspect you of wrong doing. Even if you are innocent no good can come of it. I am not advocating getting a lawyer if you are a witness to a crime. Simply if they have it in their minds you have done something wrong politely tell them you will gladly answer all of their questions once you have proper legal counsel…

I'd go even further and say don't say more than you have to ever.

There's a great point/counter point of the issue from a law school class. It's a bit long, but well worth a watch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

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