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Choose Firefox Now, Or Later You Won't Get A Choice

robert.ocallahan.org

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Re: Choose Firefox Now, Or Later You Won't Get A Choice

#241

Post by stephenr »

DCKing wrote: post #226
stephenr wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was referring more to the fact that what Google says ("embrace the open web", "open source wins", etc) don't really mean shit. Chrome isn't open source, chromium is. What are the extra bits in chrome? My issue is not that google does what it does, my issue is the religious cult like status so many tech related people give google, in spite of their numerous and repeated attempts to control so many facts of the digit…

> my issue is the religious cult like status so many tech related people give google, in spite of their numerous and repeated attempts to control so many facts of the digital landscape "People are defending Google" => "They are giving Google a religious cult status" really? Come on, keep that attitude away from adult discussion.

When the people are constantly defending an organisation that is becoming increasingly harmful to their own well being, what else is it but a cult?

Re: Choose Firefox Now, Or Later You Won't Get A Choice

#242

Post by zak_mc_kracken »

That's some sensationalism there.

A web browser is probably the least sticky software application you could conceive of. Switching from one browser to the next can typically be done in minutes, so reading something like

> So if you want an Internet --- which means, in many ways, a world --- that isn't controlled by Google, you must stop using Chrome now

makes me think the author of the article has a huge chip on his shoulder.

This not the right tone for this kind of discussion.

Re: Choose Firefox Now, Or Later You Won't Get A Choice

#243

Post by eropple »

api wrote: post #235
dep_b wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason to stop using Firefox on my Mac was battery life, Safari handles this so much better that it was impossible to ignore. On Windows 8 whenever I use I tend to use Internet Explorer as it's better optimised for HDPI screens. But I still love Firefox and I'm ready to return to the nest again as soon as the battery life issue is fixed.

Honestly I think the OP's title should really be "use something other than Chrome." The fear here is that Chrome (and Google) are approaching critical mass that would allow platform lock in. I personally think that Gmail is the greater threat. In looking at users signed up on a service of mine, I see almost all GMail . It's breathtaking. Pretty soon Google will have the ability to basically embrace-extend-extinguish…

I use Google Apps for Business because I no longer have to think about the bullshit around mail and spam, and that's not going to change until the alternatives are worth the time they require me to invest. I get the argument regarding Gmail, but if you want somebody to not use Gmail, you're gonna have to be better than Gmail. Nobody is. (Outlook.com is okay, but their web client is garbage and email is one of fairly few things I want as a web app.)

Re: Choose Firefox Now, Or Later You Won't Get A Choice

#244

Post by wfjackson »

DCKing wrote: post #236
lucb1e wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google really does not care if you use Firefox, Chrome, iOS, Android or whatever I think they do. Maybe it's not a huge deal, but it's an advantage to control more aspects of what users use (ISP, OS, browser, and finally the service itself). With Google Chrome they can make anything the way they want and support any feature they like, whereas with Firefox they'd have to wait for the guys at Mozilla to agree with so…

> I think they do. Maybe it's not a huge deal, but it's an advantage to control more aspects of what users use (ISP, OS, browser, and finally the service itself). Fair enough. Make it "Google really does not care much if you use Firefox, Chrome, iOS, Android or whatever". The point is that even if Google prefers that you use Chrome, it's not an argument to go for vendor lock-in. It's an argument maybe for wanting to…

They do try to break other platforms, like refusing to make a YouTube app on Windows Phone and then sending a takedown on a Microsoft written app. YouTube and the content providers do get hurt with these actions but Google doesn't care because they're willing to hurt themselves in order to hurt Windows Phone. Even Vimeo has a Windows Phone app since many years.

Also, interesting that this article seems to have completely disappeared off HN very suddenly.

Re: Choose Firefox Now, Or Later You Won't Get A Choice

#245

Post by hokkos »

findjashua wrote: post #215
hokkos wrote: post #133

For me Firefox is just superior to Chrome with the Tree Tab Style extension and the absence of multi-process. The multi process in Chrome is implemented in a very bad way that multiply without a reason the RAM usage, it is better implemented in Safari but still heavy, I eventually have crash in Firefox once a month, but the session manager addon can remedy. As for addons they use way less memory in Firefox, you can s…

could you please explain in layman terms what exactly is bad about the way multi-process is implemented?

It is explained here : https://trac.webkit.org/wiki/WebKit2 and here : http://webkit.sed.hu/blog/20110120/webkit2-memory-consumptio...

Chrome duplicate tons of data structures, Webkit2 shares more, but Firefox without multi process is more efficient.

Re: Choose Firefox Now, Or Later You Won't Get A Choice

#246

Post by akoster »

When working with many a bunch of tabs in Firefox or SeaMonkey, I use the new about:memory page to garbage collect, minimize the heap, et. al. I encourage other users with triple-digit tab counts or those having issues with performance to take a look. I also have disabled all plugins, having only flash and java activated on click.

Re: Choose Firefox Now, Or Later You Won't Get A Choice

#247

Post by icantthinkofone »

Pacabel wrote: post #165
icantthinkofone wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fact, the infamous memory leak Firefox was 'famous' for was fixed in version 2.5 which tells me that anyone who still complains of memory leaks in Firefox is one who you do not want to listen to for advice. EDIT: I may have the version number wrong, it's been a long time, and, yes, the "leak" was a combination of things and not just one thing but my point is the same.

What makes you so sure that there was ever only one memory leak? What makes you so sure that one or more new ones haven't been introduced since then? I've seen and heard a lot of reports from many different Firefox users about Firefox using an unreasonably large amount of memory, even when using fresh installations of the most recent version, and when engaging in very reasonable browsing patterns. As a software devel…

Users have been reporting memory leaks in Firefox up to and including last week. Users should not be used a source of what a memory leak is cause 80% of users do not know what a memory leak truly is much less be technically competent to recognize and report one.

I often make the error of saying the fix was in version 2.5 but perhaps it was in v1.5 or v2.0. It doesn't matter. They were fixed long ago is my point.

Re: Choose Firefox Now, Or Later You Won't Get A Choice

#248

Post by icantthinkofone »

jfuhrman wrote: post #136

For those saying Google is a benevolent company, here are a few signs that the bean counters are taking over: Tracking Google Apps for Education and even paid Google Apps for Business emails to build ad profiles, making misleading statement to the public that they're not doing so, and then when it finally came to statements to federal court, lacking the dare to continue lying and finally confessing the truth and then…

>how do we even know? Is there any legal safeguard against someone at Google reading your email?

The same way you do for Microsoft and Yahoo and every other mail service.

Your other complaints have to do with marketing that any company would do and does. You may not like it but that's how selling works.

Re: Choose Firefox Now, Or Later You Won't Get A Choice

#249

Post by Silhouette »

scrollaway wrote: post #111
higherpurpose wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lock-in has already begun on Chrome. Now you can't install Chrome extensions from anywhere else but the Chrome store (which means only stuff Google agrees with). Chrome is as closed-down as iOS and WP8 right now (For shame, Google!). It's actually the main reasons I'm waiting to switch from it soon. But not until Firefox gets a security sandbox.

This is not lock in (not for the purpose of lock-in anyway) - it's for security reasons and it is in fact exclusive to Windows. Chrome was getting abused by thousands of extra-crapware installers which would install extra extensions etc. They have taken a gradual response to the issue but it always came down to ">99% of outside extensions installed on windows are crapware. This is exclusive to Windows due to its perm…

Chrome was getting abused by thousands of extra-crapware installers which would install extra extensions etc.

Chrome is a prime offender in the "installing unwanted add-ons" game. I'm using Firefox right now, and it has a "Google Update" extension installed that I certainly didn't put there. My system has a silent Google Update process that runs in the background as well. Neither of these, to my knowledge, gave me any choice about installing or even actively announced their presence or what they're doing.

Chrome is a prime offender in the "undermining the system security model" game as well. Just look at how Chrome is installed and handles auto-updates on Windows. It actively circumvents the normal user access control system and pollutes a data directory with executable code, with all the negative consequences that come from that.

Maybe Google should clean up their own yard before they spend too much time criticizing everyone else's?

Re: Choose Firefox Now, Or Later You Won't Get A Choice

#250

Post by ksec »

I think this is going to anger a lot of people and gets downvoted into oblivion. But I will say this anyway.

Open Web, Javascript Only world, and Patents free video codec etc, doesn't matter to 98% of the users online. It is a very noble thing to do, but most users dont care.

Do i care? I do, but none of these are going to pull users away from Chrome. As a matter of fact, if Firefox didn't have a bunch of loyal fans, Chrome would have taken over 60% of Desktop Browsers market shares. With the majority of the rest going to IE, then Safari and Firefox.

Users care about speed. Having deployed over 100s installation of Firefox, and forcing them to use it, everytime they get to touched Chrome their instant response was, why is this so much faster. Can I use this?

They dont care about e10s, tab per process, Different set of Superfast JavaScript Compiler that only works with 10% of the site. Or What ever newest GC that was added it. They wouldn't know, and dont want to know either. All that matter is the result, the experience of using the product.

I am a Firefox Fans, but I hated it, all because i love it so much.

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