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Cell Phone Guide For US Protesters, Updated 2014 Edition

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Re: Cell Phone Guide For US Protesters, Updated 2014 Edition

#21

Post by VikingCoder »

josai wrote: post #4

> ask to speak to your attorney > ask to speak to your lawyer > you will need an attorney to help you sort through your particular circumstance Do normal people in the US always and at all times have a lawyer on call? Especially the type of person likely to be arrested at a protest (not that there's anything wrong with that - I just doubt they're the 1%). I'm in my late thirties and certainly don't have a lawyer on s…

"If you do not have an attorney, one will be appointed to you."

Also, there have recently been court cases where someone accused of a crime didn't immediately VERBALLY exercise their right to remain silent, and that fact was used as evidence. Crazy stuff.

You should say essentially, "I chose to remain silent until I can speak to an attorney."

Re: Cell Phone Guide For US Protesters, Updated 2014 Edition

#22

Post by JoeAltmaier »

VikingCoder wrote: post #21
josai wrote: post #4

> ask to speak to your attorney > ask to speak to your lawyer > you will need an attorney to help you sort through your particular circumstance Do normal people in the US always and at all times have a lawyer on call? Especially the type of person likely to be arrested at a protest (not that there's anything wrong with that - I just doubt they're the 1%). I'm in my late thirties and certainly don't have a lawyer on s…

"If you do not have an attorney, one will be appointed to you." Also, there have recently been court cases where someone accused of a crime didn't immediately VERBALLY exercise their right to remain silent, and that fact was used as evidence. Crazy stuff. You should say essentially, "I chose to remain silent until I can speak to an attorney."

Don't you actually have to remain silent? Its not just a game of Simon Says; anything you say can actually be used against you. The only solution is to remain totally silent.

Re: Cell Phone Guide For US Protesters, Updated 2014 Edition

#23

Post by Zikes »

johncoltrane wrote: post #16

* Don't use any technology before, during or after a protest. * Wear something that you can throw away. * Don't wear recognizable brands or symbols. * Hide your face. * Cover every visible part of your skin. Protests and riots are all fun and games until you are part of the last roundup and you finally have time to figure out that protesting will never change anything to what you are protesting against.

> protesting will never change anything

I'm sure the British said the same thing in 1775.

Re: Cell Phone Guide For US Protesters, Updated 2014 Edition

#24

Post by dannypgh »

josai wrote: post #4

> ask to speak to your attorney > ask to speak to your lawyer > you will need an attorney to help you sort through your particular circumstance Do normal people in the US always and at all times have a lawyer on call? Especially the type of person likely to be arrested at a protest (not that there's anything wrong with that - I just doubt they're the 1%). I'm in my late thirties and certainly don't have a lawyer on s…

You don't need to have a lawyer, or the name of a lawyer, to ask to speak to your lawyer.

The act of asking for one gives you protections: it is improper for the police to question you after you've asked for one before a lawyer is there. If you've been arrested, you'll consult with a state appointed lawyer before your arraignment, but generally arraignments are purely procedural and after one you'll either be released (and you'll get a public defender or have to hire one depending on your means) or have the opportunity to hire a private one via the phone or a proxy.

You ask for one because:

1. Talking to the police is almost never in your interest, and you have very little chance of recognizing when it is in your interest without assistance of counsel

2. Asking for one will stop the interrogation attempts until a lawyer is there. If they want to keep questioning you in custody it's on them, and not you, to get you a lawyer.

3. You gain protections you didn't have by asking.

There is no reason not to refuse questioning without a lawyer present.

Re: Cell Phone Guide For US Protesters, Updated 2014 Edition

#25

Post by VikingCoder »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #22
VikingCoder wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If you do not have an attorney, one will be appointed to you." Also, there have recently been court cases where someone accused of a crime didn't immediately VERBALLY exercise their right to remain silent, and that fact was used as evidence. Crazy stuff. You should say essentially, "I chose to remain silent until I can speak to an attorney."

Don't you actually have to remain silent? Its not just a game of Simon Says; anything you say can actually be used against you. The only solution is to remain totally silent.

I only mildly follow this stuff, but I believe you have to verbally exercise your right.

Re: Cell Phone Guide For US Protesters, Updated 2014 Edition

#26

Post by dannypgh »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #22
VikingCoder wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If you do not have an attorney, one will be appointed to you." Also, there have recently been court cases where someone accused of a crime didn't immediately VERBALLY exercise their right to remain silent, and that fact was used as evidence. Crazy stuff. You should say essentially, "I chose to remain silent until I can speak to an attorney."

Don't you actually have to remain silent? Its not just a game of Simon Says; anything you say can actually be used against you. The only solution is to remain totally silent.

No. If you're under arrest, you'll generally want to help them identify you properly (unless you don't, in which case going through the system as a John Doe [1] is an option and I know people who this worked quite well for) and state that you won't answer questions without an attorney.

The act of asking for one gives you protections.

Likewise, the police may read you your Miranda rights and try to get you to sign something saying you know and understand them. You should refuse to sign, stating that you won't sign anything without a lawyer.

Signing it opens the door for further questions and a chance your answers can be used in court. Not signing it will generally lead to them skipping the questions, as there's little point.

[1] edit: to do this you refuse to give any name. DO NOT give a false name like "John Doe" - that's merely what they'll put on the paperwork if you refuse to give a name. Giving a false name is pretty much always a bad idea. Note that generally refusing to not give your name is probable cause for arrest in many jurisdictions and I believe may even be a misdemeanor in some places. I think it's generally only a reasonable route if the arrest was clearly illegal and disclosing your real name might make you a target for other reasons (e.g. immigration status). I do know someone who wasn't a citizen who was arrested while engaging in protected first amendment activities and refused to say a single syllable (lest their accent give away their status) and they were released as a john doe at their arraignment. But yes, YMMV.

Re: Cell Phone Guide For US Protesters, Updated 2014 Edition

#27

Post by eli »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #22
VikingCoder wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If you do not have an attorney, one will be appointed to you." Also, there have recently been court cases where someone accused of a crime didn't immediately VERBALLY exercise their right to remain silent, and that fact was used as evidence. Crazy stuff. You should say essentially, "I chose to remain silent until I can speak to an attorney."

Don't you actually have to remain silent? Its not just a game of Simon Says; anything you say can actually be used against you. The only solution is to remain totally silent.

No. You should say you wish to remain silent.

Re: Cell Phone Guide For US Protesters, Updated 2014 Edition

#28

Post by eli »

dannypgh wrote: post #26
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't you actually have to remain silent? Its not just a game of Simon Says; anything you say can actually be used against you. The only solution is to remain totally silent.

No. If you're under arrest, you'll generally want to help them identify you properly (unless you don't, in which case going through the system as a John Doe [1] is an option and I know people who this worked quite well for) and state that you won't answer questions without an attorney. The act of asking for one gives you protections. Likewise, the police may read you your Miranda rights and try to get you to sign som…

Careful! In some states you must give your real name.

Re: Cell Phone Guide For US Protesters, Updated 2014 Edition

#29

Post by dannypgh »

watwut wrote: post #11
_ouxp wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think so, looking around at my peers. In the US, you have the right to publicly funded counsel if you are arrested, so the advice might better be put, "Am I free to go? Am I under arrest, or am I free to go? I am exercising my right not to speak with you and would like to speak with a lawyer".

You can get publicly funded counsel only if you are poor enough and unable to afford own lawyer. And public defenders tend to be overworked and underfunded, so it is not like they will give you too much personal attention.

In my experience you'll consult with a PD at your arraignment even if you don't qualify for a PD (for everything beyond summary offenses). They will give you the good advice of staying quiet, and stand next to you before the judge, and generally they might help you ask for bail or to otherwise get out at your arraignment.

If it's earlier in the arrest- e.g. at the police station- if they want to question you and you don't have a lawyer they need to get you one, and in theory this could be a PD. I don't have first hand experience with that, mostly because there's little point in the police bothering to question anyone who asks for a lawyer in 99.9% of cases. The lawyer will tell their client to not answer anything and the client should heed the advice.

Re: Cell Phone Guide For US Protesters, Updated 2014 Edition

#30

Post by DamnYuppie »

dannypgh wrote: post #24
josai wrote: post #4

> ask to speak to your attorney > ask to speak to your lawyer > you will need an attorney to help you sort through your particular circumstance Do normal people in the US always and at all times have a lawyer on call? Especially the type of person likely to be arrested at a protest (not that there's anything wrong with that - I just doubt they're the 1%). I'm in my late thirties and certainly don't have a lawyer on s…

You don't need to have a lawyer, or the name of a lawyer, to ask to speak to your lawyer. The act of asking for one gives you protections: it is improper for the police to question you after you've asked for one before a lawyer is there. If you've been arrested, you'll consult with a state appointed lawyer before your arraignment, but generally arraignments are purely procedural and after one you'll either be release…

Pay heed to this advice. Never consent to be questioned by an officer of the law without a lawyer if they suspect you of wrong doing. Even if you are innocent no good can come of it.

I am not advocating getting a lawyer if you are a witness to a crime. Simply if they have it in their minds you have done something wrong politely tell them you will gladly answer all of their questions once you have proper legal counsel. An no this advice doesn't apply to mundane things like speeding tickets and the like.

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