Inside the Dark, Lucrative World of Consumer Debt Collection • Hacker News Board

Re: Inside the Dark, Lucrative World of Consumer Debt Collection

#191

Post by forrestthewoods » Sat, Aug 16, 2014, 3:42 AM UTC

bequanna wrote: post #115

forca wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Medical debt rankles me like nothing else. The US, supposedly the most advanced nation on Earth has the worst notion of all: health care for profit. Simply evil. Health care is a basic human right. Full stop. Health care should never be based on one's ability to pay. Never. I pray I see socialised medicine in the US in my lifetime. If Hilary Clinton gets elected, the push for this will be stronger than the thin edge…

I agree, but I think there is too much at stake for too many high net-worth individuals and corporations for the US to make a change to the single-payer system. A 10% rise in taxes? That's a heck of a lot of money. The majority of the rich won't buy into it, they'll fight it tooth and nail. In my opinion, I think it depends on how well appeals for/against a single-payer system resonate with the middle class. Do they…

By definition there are that many rich people. If poor people were willing to pay 10% in taxes they would get back far, far more than they put in. But they aren't so they won't.

Re: Inside the Dark, Lucrative World of Consumer Debt Collection

#192

Post by sjg007 » Sat, Aug 16, 2014, 3:46 AM UTC

mariodiana wrote: post #161

derefr wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As someone who was still in college myself only a few years ago, the idea of the financial burden imposed on me for the rest of my life simply for doing the thing that society practically strong-armed me into doing seems, to me, ridiculous; for that reason I am hesitant to call any form of Student Debt collection "ethical" simply because the laws which govern it are atrocious. What happens when you don't pay your S…

"Guaranteed" means the government -- ultimately -- guarantees the banks that they'll get their money. But what that really means is that the borrower of a student loan lacks almost all of the consumer protections that any other borrow has. The government will garnish any wages, social security or disability checks, or anything else they can get their hands on. And that goes on until the debt is paid or you die.

People have done this. If you search around Google you can find details. Your credit is ruined for 7+ years but in default the loan stops accruing interest. The government will pay the loan off but then the government will garnish wages and tax refunds at a specific percentage until the principal is repaid.

Re: Inside the Dark, Lucrative World of Consumer Debt Collection

#193

Post by mikeyouse » Sat, Aug 16, 2014, 3:49 AM UTC

refurb wrote: post #177

mikeyouse wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That's why you have so many Canadians coming to the US when they get really sick. Hardly any Canadians come to the US for medical care, it's a silly rumor that has no grounding in reality. The US has one of the most expensive health care systems in the world for people without insurance, but we're supposed to believe that all these Canadians are rushing over the border with tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars f…

The study you reference seems a bit weak. They polled hospitals in Michigan, New York and other border states? The Canadians that I know who have got to the US for care go to places like the Mayo Clinic or Sloan-Kettering. At any rate, rationing of healthcare is a reality in Canada. A few years back the Supreme Court of Canada stated that the ban on private health insurance violated Canadians' right to security as th…

> They polled hospitals in Michigan, New York and other border states? The Canadians that I know who have got to the US for care go to places like the Mayo Clinic or Sloan-Kettering.

They also polled Canadians directly to approach the question from both sides.

> Several sources of evidence from Canada reinforce the notion that Canadians seeking care in the United States were relatively rare during the study period. Only 90 of 18,000 respondents to the 1996 Canadian NPHS indicated that they had received health care in the United States during the previous twelve months, and only twenty indicated that they had gone to the United States expressly for the purpose of getting that care.

Re: Inside the Dark, Lucrative World of Consumer Debt Collection

#194

Post by throwaway2048 » Sat, Aug 16, 2014, 4:01 AM UTC

refurb wrote: post #177

mikeyouse wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That's why you have so many Canadians coming to the US when they get really sick. Hardly any Canadians come to the US for medical care, it's a silly rumor that has no grounding in reality. The US has one of the most expensive health care systems in the world for people without insurance, but we're supposed to believe that all these Canadians are rushing over the border with tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars f…

The study you reference seems a bit weak. They polled hospitals in Michigan, New York and other border states? The Canadians that I know who have got to the US for care go to places like the Mayo Clinic or Sloan-Kettering. At any rate, rationing of healthcare is a reality in Canada. A few years back the Supreme Court of Canada stated that the ban on private health insurance violated Canadians' right to security as th…

whereas you provide no study whatsoever

Re: Inside the Dark, Lucrative World of Consumer Debt Collection

#195

Post by Natsu » Sat, Aug 16, 2014, 4:03 AM UTC

kazinator wrote: post #95

blhack wrote: post #34

This is one of the most unbelievable articles I've ever read. If you didn't read it all the way through, do so over lunch or something; it's amazing. The idea of "millions of dollars" worth of debt being traded for around on thumb drives, and that all those thumb drives really contain are excel spreadsheets is mind boggling . Those people in those spreadsheets are real people , and they're being completely duhumanize…

You are totally right! +1. The article had me at "stolen". If you owe a bit of money, some of the dipshits that call you may actually have misappropriated the collection account and are not connected to the original debtor in any way, who did not receive and will not receive a red cent. This passing of the buck helps to explain why numerous agencies may be involved: people get calls from various toms, dicks and harry…

It's funny because my cell phone # used to be owned by some debtor. I had to install a call blocking app because I get constant calls trying to reach some guy I've never heard of and they will never give up no matter how many times I tell them I've never heard of the guy.

I suspect the crap keeps getting recycled endlessly.

Re: Inside the Dark, Lucrative World of Consumer Debt Collection

#196

Post by FireBeyond » Sat, Aug 16, 2014, 4:08 AM UTC

wpietri wrote: post #119

judk wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Non-profit "debt counselors" is actually a huge scam industry that operates in the loopholes of nonprofit debt-counseling law.

Does anybody know more about this? I've seen ads for places like that and they set off my scam-o-meter, but I've never dug in to see how he scam worked.

You pay them a big fee, upfront (they know you have debt repayment issues, they're sure as hell not going to risk not getting -their- money), they contact your creditors with a form letter saying that they are authorized to act on your behalf and any communications should be through them (this is the biggest relief most people find, the phone calls, letters, all stop).

But then you get burned, because they settle all your debts, just as you could have yourself, and your credit is (even more) toasted, because yes, you'll pay less, but everything on your credit record is marked as 'settled' rather than 'paid in full'.

They have some emotional distance and apathy regarding the negotiation that might help, but there's nothing magical that they do that you yourself could not.

Re: Inside the Dark, Lucrative World of Consumer Debt Collection

#197

Post by FireBeyond » Sat, Aug 16, 2014, 4:16 AM UTC

refurb wrote: post #177

mikeyouse wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That's why you have so many Canadians coming to the US when they get really sick. Hardly any Canadians come to the US for medical care, it's a silly rumor that has no grounding in reality. The US has one of the most expensive health care systems in the world for people without insurance, but we're supposed to believe that all these Canadians are rushing over the border with tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars f…

The study you reference seems a bit weak. They polled hospitals in Michigan, New York and other border states? The Canadians that I know who have got to the US for care go to places like the Mayo Clinic or Sloan-Kettering. At any rate, rationing of healthcare is a reality in Canada. A few years back the Supreme Court of Canada stated that the ban on private health insurance violated Canadians' right to security as th…

"The Canadians that I know who have got to the US for care go to places like the Mayo Clinic or Sloan-Kettering."

So it's that they want to go to the pre-eminent institutions in the world, not "American healthcare (as a whole) is better than Canadian" - -your- inference is weak.

If that is the determining factor, I can guarantee that if those same Canadians had needed a heart transplant in the 80s, they would have flown to Sydney to go to St Vincent's and be operated on by Dr Victor Chang (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Chang). I think your causality is broken.

Re: Inside the Dark, Lucrative World of Consumer Debt Collection

#198

Post by FireBeyond » Sat, Aug 16, 2014, 4:18 AM UTC

a8da6b0c91d wrote: post #12

delinka wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the USA: Yes, the alleged debtor can insist on proof. The bad news: If collector mails the debtor, and the debtor doesn't respond for 30 days, the collector can report the debt to the credit reporting agencies. And we all know what a pain it is to get anything corrected on a credit report.

I don't understand why people freak out so much about their credit reports. I have no idea what my credit score is and don't care. I guess it's poor people who need credit to scrape by on a regular basis? If you have a lot of cash it seems like a completely empty threat. The bank is not going to care about your $400 unpaid comcast bill when writing you a mortgage. People who have declared bankruptcy twice are getting…

LOL... the last time I looked at a mortgage, despite my six digit income and all other things, I absolutely promise you that the bank -did- insist I resolve several unpaid debts that were listed on my credit score (probably four or five, totaling <$3,000 between them).

Re: Inside the Dark, Lucrative World of Consumer Debt Collection

#199

Post by FireBeyond » Sat, Aug 16, 2014, 4:22 AM UTC

michaelochurch wrote: post #186

UrMomReadsHN wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is something you might not understand or know. Nowadays your credit score affects more than you realize. It used in many places as a measure of trustworthiness. You can have trouble renting an apartment (depending on the market and landlord) with debt that went to collection. Also you pay more in insurance premiums. Your potential employer may pull your credit report as part of a background check and decide not…

Your potential employer may pull your credit report as part of a background check and decide not to hire you because you didn't feel like paying your debt. In many jurisdictions, they have to disclose that they're doing so. Fake a competing "exploding" offer to put time pressure on them. They'll write you an offer (if they're interested) quickly. Then, if they rescind the offer later because they don't like what they…

"Then, if they rescind the offer later because they don't like what they see on a credit check, threaten to sue for promissory estoppel."

At which point they'll promptly hire you, and let you go in the first week, as you're "just not working out", and you're most likely in an "at will" state.

Re: Inside the Dark, Lucrative World of Consumer Debt Collection

#200

Post by kyllo » Sat, Aug 16, 2014, 4:37 AM UTC

FireBeyond wrote: post #199

michaelochurch wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your potential employer may pull your credit report as part of a background check and decide not to hire you because you didn't feel like paying your debt. In many jurisdictions, they have to disclose that they're doing so. Fake a competing "exploding" offer to put time pressure on them. They'll write you an offer (if they're interested) quickly. Then, if they rescind the offer later because they don't like what they…

"Then, if they rescind the offer later because they don't like what they see on a credit check, threaten to sue for promissory estoppel." At which point they'll promptly hire you, and let you go in the first week, as you're "just not working out", and you're most likely in an "at will" state.

Would something that transparent actually stop you from having grounds to sue, though? If you documented that they rescinded an offer, then you threatened to sue before they hired and immediately fired you, I don't think them doing that would invalidate your case at all.