Inside the Dark, Lucrative World of Consumer Debt Collection • Hacker News Board

Re: Inside the Dark, Lucrative World of Consumer Debt Collection

#171

Post by patmcguire » Sat, Aug 16, 2014, 1:51 AM UTC

CMCDragonkai wrote: post #162

downandout wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Also the fact that debt is being purchased for 1/12 of a penny is completely just...unbelievable. It seems that the particular deal you're referring to was a fraudulent transaction. It had been sold (at least) twice, and having paid $41K for $50M worth of debt, the agency lost money on it. It doesn't sound like legitimate deals are offered this cheaply. However, you are right that insanity runs rampant in the indust…

That's really smart. Do banks have some way of detecting if the buyer isn't associated with the debtor?

They might not care. It's money now, versus an asset that would still be technically in default. It was a liquidity crisis, or at least that was the official line... $3.4 million in cash might be worth more to them than $18m in bad debt even if it was repaid - it isn't good on balance sheets, and with all the regulations about how much money has to back what and what counts as backing (and private contractual obligations - how do the credit default swaps outstanding treat something that's paying interest only vs a total writeoff), without knowing the details almost anything could be the case.

Re: Inside the Dark, Lucrative World of Consumer Debt Collection

#172

Post by learc83 » Sat, Aug 16, 2014, 1:58 AM UTC

UrMomReadsHN wrote: post #150

vinceguidry wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not so idiotic. I ran up a modest amount of debt in my early twenties, never paid any of it. Fast forward ten years. Found a decent job, look to buy a car, come to find out my credit report is mostly empty. Most everything had dropped off. Capital One gave me a credit card, I've been building up credit and savings over the last year. If you have the discipline to say, "no new debt," which isn't that hard to do after…

Its hard to impossible to rent an apartment around here with a low credit score. That wasn't the case several years ago. I am guessing it will just keep getting more prevalent so you may have to live in your parents garage util 30 while waiting for that old debt to drop off your credit report.

Can't you just offer to pay a larger deposit or several months up front?

Re: Inside the Dark, Lucrative World of Consumer Debt Collection

#173

Post by BallinBige » Sat, Aug 16, 2014, 2:00 AM UTC

spitfire wrote: post #148

AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #15

Advice from someone who works on debt collection software for a living: never, ever let a check bounce. Returned checks operate in a legal loophole that circumvents most of the consumer protection afforded to regular debt. Collection agencies can begin pursuing it immediately, can begin reporting it to the credit bureaus immediately, and the interest rate they're allowed to charge on it is ridiculous.

Do you have a way for people to reach you? I'd actually like to talk software in the ARM space. Or you can reach me, email in profile.

eb [at] healpay.com

Re: Inside the Dark, Lucrative World of Consumer Debt Collection

#174

Post by mikeyouse » Sat, Aug 16, 2014, 2:03 AM UTC

refurb wrote: post #151

forca wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Medical debt rankles me like nothing else. The US, supposedly the most advanced nation on Earth has the worst notion of all: health care for profit. Simply evil. Health care is a basic human right. Full stop. Health care should never be based on one's ability to pay. Never. I pray I see socialised medicine in the US in my lifetime. If Hilary Clinton gets elected, the push for this will be stronger than the thin edge…

Evil! The hyperbole is overflowing! It is true that socialized medicine puts an end to the financial hardship imposed on individuals, but it also brings other problems into the picture, namely rationed healthcare. I've experienced it myself. That's why you have so many Canadians coming to the US when they get really sick.

>That's why you have so many Canadians coming to the US when they get really sick.

Hardly any Canadians come to the US for medical care, it's a silly rumor that has no grounding in reality. The US has one of the most expensive health care systems in the world for people without insurance, but we're supposed to believe that all these Canadians are rushing over the border with tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars for marginally better care?

http://content.healthaffairs.org/content/21/3/19.full

"Results from these sources do not support the widespread perception that Canadian residents seek care extensively in the United States. Indeed, the numbers found are so small as to be barely detectable relative to the use of care by Canadians at home."

Re: Inside the Dark, Lucrative World of Consumer Debt Collection

#175

Post by BallinBige » Sat, Aug 16, 2014, 2:05 AM UTC

trichey wrote: post #141

AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #15

Advice from someone who works on debt collection software for a living: never, ever let a check bounce. Returned checks operate in a legal loophole that circumvents most of the consumer protection afforded to regular debt. Collection agencies can begin pursuing it immediately, can begin reporting it to the credit bureaus immediately, and the interest rate they're allowed to charge on it is ridiculous.

Just curious, which debt collection software do you work on?

we integrate with several collection software - and bolt on our payment portal with offer's settlement options - www.healpay.com/settlementapp.html

Re: Inside the Dark, Lucrative World of Consumer Debt Collection

#176

Post by yogo » Sat, Aug 16, 2014, 2:21 AM UTC

eli wrote: post #51

blhack wrote: post #34

This is one of the most unbelievable articles I've ever read. If you didn't read it all the way through, do so over lunch or something; it's amazing. The idea of "millions of dollars" worth of debt being traded for around on thumb drives, and that all those thumb drives really contain are excel spreadsheets is mind boggling . Those people in those spreadsheets are real people , and they're being completely duhumanize…

Sure, but on the other hand, let's say you run a small business. At some point you have customers who don't pay. What do you do? Write it off as a total loss? 1/12 is better than nothing.

You can just sell it off on a site like judgmentmarketplace.com. sometimes trying to collect could end up costing you more.

Re: Inside the Dark, Lucrative World of Consumer Debt Collection

#177

Post by refurb » Sat, Aug 16, 2014, 2:29 AM UTC

mikeyouse wrote: post #174

refurb wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Evil! The hyperbole is overflowing! It is true that socialized medicine puts an end to the financial hardship imposed on individuals, but it also brings other problems into the picture, namely rationed healthcare. I've experienced it myself. That's why you have so many Canadians coming to the US when they get really sick.

>That's why you have so many Canadians coming to the US when they get really sick. Hardly any Canadians come to the US for medical care, it's a silly rumor that has no grounding in reality. The US has one of the most expensive health care systems in the world for people without insurance, but we're supposed to believe that all these Canadians are rushing over the border with tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars f…

The study you reference seems a bit weak. They polled hospitals in Michigan, New York and other border states? The Canadians that I know who have got to the US for care go to places like the Mayo Clinic or Sloan-Kettering.

At any rate, rationing of healthcare is a reality in Canada. A few years back the Supreme Court of Canada stated that the ban on private health insurance violated Canadians' right to security as the waiting times for the public system were so high.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaoulli_v._Quebec_(Attorney_Ge...

Re: Inside the Dark, Lucrative World of Consumer Debt Collection

#178

Post by jqm » Sat, Aug 16, 2014, 2:44 AM UTC

Very interesting article.

I'm sensing a collective consumer opportunity. Form a group, take donations, buy the bad paper (for pennies on the dollar) and forgive all the debts on it. No doubt many of the people would be simple deadbeats, but lots of them are probably just people who ran into problems, and something like this would help clear up their credit and give them a new start. What a gift! I'd kick in $25 for something like this.

As a side effect, with cleaner credit the debtors would be able to start racking up more debt again and this would stimulate the economy!

Re: Inside the Dark, Lucrative World of Consumer Debt Collection

#179

Post by toomuchtodo » Sat, Aug 16, 2014, 2:45 AM UTC

GeneralMayhem wrote: post #164

Terr_ wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems simple and fair at first, but I think it actually creates more problems than it solves. First, you get a horrible incentive to not repay debts: 1. A relatively innocent and good-natured Bank lends a jerk $1.00 2. The jerk refuses to pay it back, knowing the bank can't transfer it to someone who isn't a pushover without giving him a steeply-discounted offer first 3. In response all loan requirements and int…

>First, you get a horrible incentive to not repay debts Isn't that what credit ratings are for? You'd be able to do this exactly once for any meaningful amount of money, and then your financial life would be otherwise over.

You can walk away from hundreds of thousands of dollars in mortgage debt and still have a 700 credit score, all of your credit cards, and the ability to still get credit.

Defaulting on debt doesn't mean your financial life is over by any means.

Re: Inside the Dark, Lucrative World of Consumer Debt Collection

#180

Post by michaelochurch » Sat, Aug 16, 2014, 2:47 AM UTC

refurb wrote: post #151

forca wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Medical debt rankles me like nothing else. The US, supposedly the most advanced nation on Earth has the worst notion of all: health care for profit. Simply evil. Health care is a basic human right. Full stop. Health care should never be based on one's ability to pay. Never. I pray I see socialised medicine in the US in my lifetime. If Hilary Clinton gets elected, the push for this will be stronger than the thin edge…

Evil! The hyperbole is overflowing! It is true that socialized medicine puts an end to the financial hardship imposed on individuals, but it also brings other problems into the picture, namely rationed healthcare. I've experienced it myself. That's why you have so many Canadians coming to the US when they get really sick.

Healthcare is already rationed in the U.S. It's rationed everywhere, by definition, because there isn't (to my knowledge, anyway) any country where the (price-agnostic) demand for resources isn't more than the supply.

It's just rationed in an inhumane, stupid way in the U.S.

No one from the industrialized world comes "to the U.S." because of a severe illness. Rather, people come to specific doctors for new procedures, or to have the one surgeon in the world who's done Risky Procedure X a hundred times instead of four. If that doctor's in Paris, they go to France. If he's at Mount Sinai, they go to New York. If he's at Hopkins, they go to Baltimore. But no one from the industrialized world comes to the US itself for its not-that-great-overall healthcare system, and no one has for over 30 years.