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Email Is Still the Best Thing on the Internet

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Re: Email Is Still the Best Thing on the Internet

#71
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently gave serious thought to building something similar to a rolodex social network, but eventually poked too many holes in it to follow through. I'd just come back from a conference at which I'd been asked for business cards by lots of people, maybe a hundred. Of all those people, I only really cared to hear back from a few. Though it's nice to have my name out there and be cordial in the industry, I wanted to…

I couldn't reply on your last comment, so it will be here. How would be your "9 or 10 cards"? I imagine you can just control what info a conctact would have access. Maybe: professional email, personal email, office phone, personal phone, where do you work. Maybe one profile for each info..but that is 5... how to reach 9 or 10? I think of a relationship regulated by tags. Tags similar to Google+ Circles. You can use t…

I could imagine setting up the following cards right away. And by "card", I'm not specifically referring to a piece of paper, but perhaps some kind of contact-info-related digital object.

* BFFs

* Recent acquaintances

* Close family (reasonable people)

* Extended family (think annoying newsletter emails)

* Co-workers (cell number included)

* Clients (cell number definitely not included)

* Spammy business contacts (vendors)

* Travel (something I could hand out with temp hotel and phone info, etc.)

* Japanese (my wife is from Japan, we have lots of friends here and visit there often)

I could also imagine handing out specific cards at various social functions. For example, at a writing club I used to attend, I'd want to provide a link to my portfolio online. I'd never ever want anyone else to read that embarrassing stuff though. In another case, I used to attend a board game club, and it would've been nice to hand out cards with links to my profile on boardgamegeek, meet-up profile, etc.

It seems like this would work best if the exchange format was simply vCard or some other open format. You get to control who gets what at the point of exchange, and they can consume it into whatever system they like. There's no after-the-fact futzing with tags or permissions or contact management; it's just a system to control how you present yourself. The whole idea is probably DOA if you can't interface with the rest of the world's contact software. Maybe you allow connections if both people in the exchange are users of your service, but you wouldn't want to take it for granted.

As an aside, this got really interesting when we considered the "hot girl in a bar" situation. Let's say she gets asked for contact details many times, it's too loud to hear names or whatever, so she might need to snap a picture of the guy at any point of exchange, then review and modify permissions later. But that seems kinda fussy as a system.

Re: Email Is Still the Best Thing on the Internet

#72

As this article alludes to: the heart of email's longevity, the thing that prevents it being closed by a single entity, is being a classical IETF protocol: federated, decentralized, open and interoperable. The first two of those properties arise from being based on the DNS for SMTP endpoint discovery. This is why every protocol needs to specify that it uses the DNS, and how. And that is why I get so worried that the…

It would be useful to draw a dependency graph of IETF and W3C protocols that characterizes each one on their degree of divergence from classical IETF values. Identify the point(s) in time where history took a wrong turn, revert to that point, fork and start over with new protocols. It can't be any less disruptive than new protocols which have a non-classical values. Are there modern use cases for NNTP? Could UUCP be…

Yes - I have used NNTP as an eventually-reliable pub/sub message bus in an unstable mesh environment. The specific use being transport of per-device usage/billing & monitoring data.

The implied Gossip algorithm of the server-to-server subprotocol was well suited to the intermittent availability of links in that particular network. Messages (articles) were PGP verified. NNTP is channelized by design, and servers like Diablo have built-in expiry management. It's also easy to monitor with a lightweight news reader.

This was only a few years ago. I was pleased with it, at the time - simple to build from readily available parts.

Re: Email Is Still the Best Thing on the Internet

#73

It would probably only take one innovation in email, something that Gmail could probably pull off, to make email lovable again. I really think that if Google could help alleviate people's concerns with email (volume, spam etc), people would be quite happy with email again :)

Maybe add a little bit of useful cryptography even. Spam is already fixed by Google, and volume? How could Google fix that?

Re: Email Is Still the Best Thing on the Internet

#74

Has anyone got an invite code for the new Email product Sortd.com?

I got an invite code from a coworker as I couldn't wait any longer to get in!

I've been using it for two weeks now and I have to say it's a must have app for all Gmail users ... It's has completely changed the way I work.

Re: Email Is Still the Best Thing on the Internet

#75
post #63

An interesting post on this subject by Aaron Seigo: http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2014/07/one-singular-sensation-yo...

This article is good but it makes some comments that don't seem true to me.

> It's a globally addressable system that does not require any centralized system, which means it works everywhere and for everyone no matter what choice in service provider the individual user (or their organization) makes.

Isn't it the case that nearly all email is routed using DNS? Certainly all of mine is. While there are certainly arguments against centralized addressing systems, the advantage that email has isn't that its addressing system is uncentralized: it's that its addressing system is more libre than proprietary systems.

>These "open social networks" don't pass messages to the end user. They pass messages to servers which the user then consults.

How is this different from email? Most people don't have email addresses at a domain assigned to their normal computer; the vast majority of email is accessed over some internet protocol from a remote server, whether its IMAP, POP3, or HTTP. I've never used Diaspora, so maybe I just don't understand what functionality its missing.

Re: Email Is Still the Best Thing on the Internet

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually figured out a domain for this idea before I gave up. The problem is I can't figure out how it scales correctly. It ideally would A) have strong network effects B) you would get contact data through your interfaces of choice (iphone, email address book, gmail, android, etc) and would rarely if ever interact with a web gui for the service. It should also have a circles concept so that I can give different pe…

subscription?

Limits the network effect dramatically. Best I could come up with was some sort of power user tools or something.

Re: Email Is Still the Best Thing on the Internet

#77
This brings up a point I think about a lot:

Is email our last success in popularizing an open and federated standard?

Maybe you can count OAuth, but IMO i have low confidence that we'll in the near future be able to collaborate on an open protocol so that many benefits of email such as control without vendor lock-in can be enjoyed.

We have too many entrenched interests by the main players. I have been working briefly on improving the exchange of trust/reputation data online, but it seemd for us that there was no alternative to a proprietary system if you wish to see widespread adoption.

EDIT: I guess Bitcoin has good potential.

Re: Email Is Still the Best Thing on the Internet

#78
post #9

What if someone designed a new email protocol/etc from scratch without any reference to the existing one. Could it be made better? Can you even define what better is?

Of course. Lots of ideas in this direction. But be warned, thinking about new protocols is the first place engineers like us go without thinking about what getting adoption would really look like (which would be near impossible + need a backwards compatible beachhead imo).

Re: Email Is Still the Best Thing on the Internet

#79
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel that gmail has held back development of good desktop clients (which is what we really need). My laptop has an almost empty 1TB hard drive yet I need to wait to download an image attachment every time I want to view it. Email should be built around abundant storage, not a dependency on bandwidth.

> Email should be built around abundant storage, not a dependency on bandwidth. I'm sorry but this doesn't make sense to me. To cache all images you've ever received is sort of antithetical to the whole 'decentralized' nature of email, and the internet in a nutshell. The 'inconvenience' of having to re-download far surpasses the need to store every single trivial little thing on your mail client's cache. A few second…

I disagree. A modern device is almost entirely composed of files downloaded from the internet. The binary for your web browser is just a local cache of an entity that exists in the cloud. You need a local cache because bandwidth and latency are too high to retrieve a new copy every single time you run the program unless you need an update. It seems a pity to not use storage to cache when it is available. Especially considering that to most people bandwidth is much more expensive than storage.

Re: Email Is Still the Best Thing on the Internet

#80
post #15

Wholeheartedly agree with the article. I have absolute control of my inbox with filters, labels, and signing up for newsletters and/or updates on various subjects. There is no way a centralized end-to-end service is going to eclipse email for me, unless they radically change their business models. The value proposition is just really bad in all the services I've seen so far. "Oh, you want me to sign up for your servi…

This (and sister comments to mine) are super interesting, we're working on this problem space - with a professional focus - and there are a bunch of folks in the consumer side too. Happy to chat to anyone interested in solving this sort of problem.
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