A Reminder To Investors • Hacker News Board

Re: A Reminder To Investors

#111

Post by yummyfajitas » Tue, Aug 12, 2014, 5:09 PM UTC

7Figures2Commas wrote: post #98

tptacek wrote: post #4

Such a simple thing to write, but so useful. Waiting excitedly to see who else will follow suit. Good call.

I guess I'm not as easily impressed as you are. Sam Altman recently wrote[1], "Yes, it’s awful to hear the horror stories of wildly inappropriate behavior from investors to the entrepreneurs pitching them. (Unfortunately, stories like these are not super rare, but because there’s a big cost to going public with them, most never get told. My hope is that YC has enough leverage at this point to make it clear that this…

Here is a translation of Altman's message from powertalk into english:

"Dear feminists and rabble rousers, we recognize your power. We are on your team. We will genuflect in the direction of those things you consider holy. Please don't target us."

(For those unfamiliar with the term, "powertalk" is the in-group language of powerful people.)

http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/11/11/the-gervais-principle-i...

YC is attempting to appease the internet bullies and avoid unwanted media attention (witness the Paul Graham sexism non-incident), not convey facts.

Re: A Reminder To Investors

#112

Post by dogecoinbase » Tue, Aug 12, 2014, 5:11 PM UTC

jp_sc wrote: post #106

dogecoinbase wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't worry, buddy. White dudes still hold all the positions of power in the industry. It's still way easier to get a job as a white dude. People will believe you if you're a white dude, about both things that happen to you and about your abilities. If this is "racism" or "discriminatory", it's the least effective ever, and any comparison to the biases experienced by women and people of color is insulting.

Nope. Racism isn't ok, not even a as form of revenge, not even if it has little effect on a group as a whole.

What, exactly, is your "Nope" directed at? Because at no point did I say that racism was "ok".

Re: A Reminder To Investors

#113

Post by elsigh » Tue, Aug 12, 2014, 5:12 PM UTC

simplemind wrote: post #100

Sadly, I sometimes worry that explicit moves like this deter investors from working with female founders. If the risk is, "I have to watch every little thing I say/joke with a female founder lest I get blacklisted", if I was a VC, I might choose to avoid female founders altogether. Wonder if the better solution involves more carrot and less stick.

Anyone who worries about this to the extent that they choose not to invest in a great idea/product/company run by females is just a bad investor.

Re: A Reminder To Investors

#114

Post by rayiner » Tue, Aug 12, 2014, 5:12 PM UTC

yummyfajitas wrote: post #111

7Figures2Commas wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I'm not as easily impressed as you are. Sam Altman recently wrote[1], "Yes, it’s awful to hear the horror stories of wildly inappropriate behavior from investors to the entrepreneurs pitching them. (Unfortunately, stories like these are not super rare, but because there’s a big cost to going public with them, most never get told. My hope is that YC has enough leverage at this point to make it clear that this…

Here is a translation of Altman's message from powertalk into english: "Dear feminists and rabble rousers, we recognize your power. We are on your team. We will genuflect in the direction of those things you consider holy. Please don't target us." (For those unfamiliar with the term, "powertalk" is the in-group language of powerful people.) http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/11/11/the-gervais-principle-i... YC is attempt…

Saying that feminists are in a position of power is utterly ridiculous.

Re: A Reminder To Investors

#115

Post by JabavuAdams » Tue, Aug 12, 2014, 5:12 PM UTC

I'm kind of surprised this needs to be said, but on further reflection not really, I guess. WTF.

Overall, I think it's good to make this explicit. People rarely harass / victimize up the power hierarchy.

Re: A Reminder To Investors

#116

Post by cjensen » Tue, Aug 12, 2014, 5:12 PM UTC

The only way to stop bullying is to stand up to bullies. I know it's difficult and there may be consequences, but I really believe the right way to handle this is to gather up a bunch of these stories and publish them with full disclosure of the names of people involved.

You don't change a culture of harassment by quietly warning people about who is a harasser. You change the culture by ostracizing people who behave that badly.

Re: A Reminder To Investors

#117

Post by coffeemug » Tue, Aug 12, 2014, 5:14 PM UTC

People actually do this?! (I'm sure there is precedent since JL took the time to write the post, but it's still mindboggling to me that someone would actually try it)

Re: A Reminder To Investors

#118

Post by JabavuAdams » Tue, Aug 12, 2014, 5:15 PM UTC

rpmcb wrote: post #20

tptacek wrote: post #4

Such a simple thing to write, but so useful. Waiting excitedly to see who else will follow suit. Good call.

I'm curious what you mean by "so useful."

People modify their behaviour depending on the consequences they reasonably expect. For all that some harassers say that their behaviour is normal or unintentional, they don't really harass up the power hierarchy. That's actually quite a good litmus test.

Re: A Reminder To Investors

#119

Post by simplemind » Tue, Aug 12, 2014, 5:15 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #104

simplemind wrote: post #100

Sadly, I sometimes worry that explicit moves like this deter investors from working with female founders. If the risk is, "I have to watch every little thing I say/joke with a female founder lest I get blacklisted", if I was a VC, I might choose to avoid female founders altogether. Wonder if the better solution involves more carrot and less stick.

You think YC won't notice that, or will continue working with investors that studiously avoid investing in women?

They haven't to date, right?

Re: A Reminder To Investors

#120

Post by potatolicious » Tue, Aug 12, 2014, 5:15 PM UTC

danielweber wrote: post #84

potatolicious wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still inappropriate after demo day. Investors are a tight knit group and retaliatory action is always a concern. The recent two exposes from two female founders both pointed to investors' power/influence as coercive factors, even if no specific deal is on the table. It's maybe unfortunate it has to be this way, but investors should not hit on founders, full stop . For those who didn't see this when it was making its…

I dunno where I'm going with this, but, if I were a manager and wanted to date a subordinate, I imagine I could quit, get a another job, and then ask the person out.[1] Is this route not available to an investor? Are they in the position of "permanent boss" to a founder? This is a good plug for my general advice: make sure your employees have enough time to date outside of work. [1] I never did this or was in a posit…

Yeah, this is why I described it as "maybe unfortunate". I do believe there are roles where you will end up being "permanent boss" to a group of people, and short of losing all of your money/influence there's no way out.

A burden of being incredibly wealthy and influential, I suppose.