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Why Stealing Cars Went Out of Fashion

nytimes.com

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Re: Why Stealing Cars Went Out of Fashion

#71

Post by jarek »

gambiting wrote: post #64
infinite8s wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe the tracker could be powered by usage of the bike.

You want the wheels on a bike to spin as freely as possible, any added resistance is unwelcome because it makes cycling harder - and you would need to add resistance to generate electricity. Personally I even hate the dynamos that power the lights, because their effect can definitely be felt when you ride.

Modern electronics don't really need that much, and/or the dynamos have improved. I had a bike with 90s-style dynamo and it was indeed a slight pain. Today I ride Bixi/Alta bikeshare bicycles - they have something to power the lights, but any impedance it creates is too small to notice.

Re: Why Stealing Cars Went Out of Fashion

#72

Post by ck2 »

leonhandreke wrote: post #16

I wish bicycle theft was tackled in a similar fashion. A combination of factors seems to be at play here: Photo ID required to sell the car and technological hurdles that are too hard to overcome for small criminals. With embedded computer chips being so cheap nowadays, surely it should be possible to embed some sort of tracking system in bicycle frames.

Do you find police interested at all in helping recover a stolen bike?

Unless you hand them GPS corordinates and a photo of the person taking it, they aren't going to do anything.

Re: Why Stealing Cars Went Out of Fashion

#73

Post by morsch »

samastur wrote: post #65
gambiting wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that especially inside the EU, bikes are stolen almost in bulk, then loaded into trucks and taken outside the country - even if you get stopped at the border(which is super rare, thanks to the Schoengen zone), it's impossible to check the serial numbers of the bikes - if there are any databases, they are usually not ran by the police, and there are absolutely zero international databases for bikes. Eas…

I live in Slovenia which is commonly considered east EU. Guess what, bikes get stolen here as well (not sure I know any cyclist who hasn't had one stolen at some point). And your 90% estimate is as offensive as wrong.

To put things into perspective, maybe he's right in saying that bikes get moved over the border to facilitate the resale. Your stolen bikes probably end up here in Germany. It's the EU single market. :) On general principle Germany tends to export more than it imports, not sure if that also applies to stolen goods. ;)

I doubt the thieves go to so much trouble, though, I expect my bikes that got stolen -- happened a few times -- ended up resold in the same city or in a neighbouring town. Wouldn't be totally shocked to recognize my own (well, formerly) bike in the local classifieds.

Re: Why Stealing Cars Went Out of Fashion

#74

Post by mike_hearn »

grahamel wrote: post #40

That's interesting because there's been a rise recently in London where people plug a computer into a car to disable the alarm and start the engine.. http://www.motors.co.uk/news/security/electronic-car-theft-o...

Immobilisers have absolutely slaughtered car theft (this is not news, I referenced this trend in a talk I gave a couple of years ago), but this makes them VERY vulnerable to being hacked. What's more most immobiliser systems are poorly engineered from a cryptographic perspective, for example, some can be overridden by simply telling the ECU to start up via a plugin cable, others are simply broadcasting static repeating codes meaning you can gather the codes with a fixed receiver in a car park and then go collect them later.

When a sufficiently smart criminal starts making kits that let you hack immobilisers, theft of those models shoots up dramatically. BMW has suffered from this effect badly. Their engine security sucked and owners became magnets for car theft.

Re: Why Stealing Cars Went Out of Fashion

#75

Post by MrBuddyCasino »

thelettere wrote: post #50
jzwinck wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to reduce bicycle theft in the US, the solution is simple: drastically increase the penalties for perpetrators. Get caught stealing a bike? One year in jail. Adjust until the level of theft is where you want it to be. Stealing a bike is not just taking $300 or whatever from the owner. It's robbing that cyclist and would-be cyclists of the confidence to use their preferred mode of transportation, and deter…

They've done studies on the effect of increasing penalties on crime, and it's virtually nil.

In islamic countries with sharia law, nobody steals, since you risk loosing a hand. Not that I recommend that approach, but I'd be careful with such statements.

Re: Why Stealing Cars Went Out of Fashion

#76

Post by vasiliys »

slyall wrote: post #68
michaelt wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, with modern car immobilisers you can't bypass them or break them, because they're built right into the ECU that runs the spark plugs and whatnot. There's not really an equivalent for that in bicycles - a vital electronic component that, if removed, makes the bike unusable. Sure, you can get a bike tracker on ebay, but if trackers were making a significant dent in bicycle theft, thieves would just look for them…

What about something like Microdots which can be applied to the frame and other parts? They seem to be common in places to deter theft of cars and other items http://www.mydatatags.com/

From http://www.mydatatags.com/how-it-works/how-microdots-work

> Step 4

> Recover Your Property

> If the police or a good Samaritan find your lost or stolen assets marked with our microtag technology and contacts MyDataTags, we will inform you and give you their contact information so you can recover your personal property.

So it's a serial number that nobody will notice (1mm black dot) or be able to read (I would assume it's gunk to be scratched off, not taken to with a magnifying glass).

Maybe I'm missing their key point, but on a bicycle the reasonable responsible buyer will just run the serial through whatever stolen registry is most popular in their area, not scour the bike for tiny secret illuminati codes.

Re: Why Stealing Cars Went Out of Fashion

#77

Post by lloeki »

gambiting wrote: post #47
leke wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about RFID chips built inside the frame. Then your town would make hidden readers, placed around the city (close to cameras), that could alert authorities of a reported stolen bicycle being ridden. Make the thieves pay a hefty fine to recouporate some of the expense of the system.

The problem is that especially inside the EU, bikes are stolen almost in bulk, then loaded into trucks and taken outside the country - even if you get stopped at the border(which is super rare, thanks to the Schoengen zone), it's impossible to check the serial numbers of the bikes - if there are any databases, they are usually not ran by the police, and there are absolutely zero international databases for bikes. Eas…

In France there's Bicycode. The sole increase in risk of a bike being visibly tagged vs one that is not is enough to make the baddies pick the other one.

Also there are actually two types of bicycle thiefs: organised groups that load them by the truckload and opportunistic folks that know most locks are trivially broken and just want a cheap ride. You'd be surprised how many times I witnessed guys just carelessly dropping "their" bike once arrived.

[0]: http://www.bicycode.org

Re: Why Stealing Cars Went Out of Fashion

#79

Post by superpatosainz »

michaelt wrote: post #31
leonhandreke wrote: post #16

I wish bicycle theft was tackled in a similar fashion. A combination of factors seems to be at play here: Photo ID required to sell the car and technological hurdles that are too hard to overcome for small criminals. With embedded computer chips being so cheap nowadays, surely it should be possible to embed some sort of tracking system in bicycle frames.

Well, with modern car immobilisers you can't bypass them or break them, because they're built right into the ECU that runs the spark plugs and whatnot. There's not really an equivalent for that in bicycles - a vital electronic component that, if removed, makes the bike unusable. Sure, you can get a bike tracker on ebay, but if trackers were making a significant dent in bicycle theft, thieves would just look for them…

Some Chilean startup is trying to do something akin to that, embedding a big lock in the frame, so stealing the bike would render it useless (tho, of course, it's an urban-only bike).

http://nadiemelaroba.cl

Re: Why Stealing Cars Went Out of Fashion

#80

Post by greenpresident »

jarek wrote: post #71
gambiting wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You want the wheels on a bike to spin as freely as possible, any added resistance is unwelcome because it makes cycling harder - and you would need to add resistance to generate electricity. Personally I even hate the dynamos that power the lights, because their effect can definitely be felt when you ride.

Modern electronics don't really need that much, and/or the dynamos have improved. I had a bike with 90s-style dynamo and it was indeed a slight pain. Today I ride Bixi/Alta bikeshare bicycles - they have something to power the lights, but any impedance it creates is too small to notice.

Hub dynamos are very efficient. I do not feel a difference riding with or without one. For street speeds of around 20km/h in an urban environment they create mechanical drag of around 6 watts [1] with the lights switched on.

http://www.bikequarterly.com/VBQgenerator.pdf

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