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Vancouver tech surges as U.S. immigration reform idles

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Re: Vancouver tech surges as U.S. immigration reform idles

#211

Post by nikanj »

lsc wrote: post #205
jarek wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but maybe weren't wealthy enough to get an advanced degree. Of course, in many countries the ability to get an advanced degree is not very dependent on being wealthy

>Of course, in many countries the ability to get an advanced degree is not very dependent on being wealthy I... find your assertion to be unlikely. Of course, I could be wrong. Do you have statistics? Is there a country where there is not a very strong correlation between high parental income and advanced degrees?

Finland should have no correlation here, as all the schools are free and you get an allowance from the government for the duration of your studies. Unfortunately it turns out a high income correlates well with having an advanced degree, and a parent with an advanced degree correlates well with a child who has one.

Which results in a situation where the higher socio-economical status of your parents makes you much more likely to have an advanced degree, even though there should be no correlation.

Re: Vancouver tech surges as U.S. immigration reform idles

#213

Post by VLM »

ulfw wrote: post #187
afafsd wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would that be?

Because a Google or Apple or Facebook can bid $100K+ to get someone a visa in this proposed auctioning system. A 10person startup couldn't reasonably.

"$100K+"

I'm sure that was proposed as ridiculous, but you have to keep in mind that there's only a programming labor shortage in two, maybe three cities on the coasts.

For a national program like this lottery, every non-citizen the .gov lets thru will result in many social program costs not only for the one citizen who won't be employed and at a higher pay rate, plus all the downstream effects of lower salaries and less jobs for citizens leading to lower economic activity leading to lower tax revenue.

A $100K cost per immigrant is below the low side of what it costs .gov to take care of the local citizens.

What I'm claiming is the program is a stereotypical crony capitalist "socialize the losses and privatize the gains" scam. Screwing the program up or limiting it or making it very expensive to participate in is a net economic gain to the country. "Fixing" the program would be a net economic loss to the country. Furthermore the program is literally inhumane, a real wage for a human with real working conditions is X, but as a psuedo-slave psuedo-indentured servant you are less human than a real human so we'll only offer you 50% of X and treat you like dirt because thats highly profitable and helps rich guys get richer at the expense of everyone else. Its disgusting that the program exists on several levels.

Besides Canada has better medical system, better crime stats, arguably better recreational opportunities... I wouldn't necessarily describe being "stuck" in Canada as much of a punishment. Its not exactly like being trapped in Somalia.

Re: Vancouver tech surges as U.S. immigration reform idles

#214

Post by blutoot »

sjy wrote: post #200
blutoot wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

H1B is the only reasonable way a middle-class citizen of another nation can move to the US. Unless you can come up with a reasonable overnight replacement of that program, a lot of people will, rightfully, push for its expansion and not the other way around.

That is not true for all nations. Australians can apply for an E-3 visa, which is essentially an indefinitely-renewable H-1B with fewer restrictions and no lottery.

Yeah well most of us aren't fortunate to be born in a wealthy nation like Australia.

Re: Vancouver tech surges as U.S. immigration reform idles

#215

Post by mhurron »

Dewie wrote: post #180
refurb wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A recent gallup survey says 150M people would move to the US if they could, the UK was a distant second at 45M [1]. As for the lottery, how else could it be done? There is a cap on H1-B visa each year. The USCIS receives more applications than spots the first day you can apply . [1] http://www.gallup.com/poll/153992/150-million-adults-worldwi...

> A recent gallup survey says 150M people would move to the US if they could, the UK was a distant second at 45M Now adjust those numbers to the population of those countries... oh look, the UK all of a sudden came out ahead. All of these studies comparing numbers usually just boils down to "The US is big". It has been brought up elsewhere that Canada, for example, has more immigrants as a percentage of population. B…

Why does a per-capita number make any sense here?

Re: Vancouver tech surges as U.S. immigration reform idles

#216

Post by simonbarker87 »

lsc wrote: post #205
jarek wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but maybe weren't wealthy enough to get an advanced degree. Of course, in many countries the ability to get an advanced degree is not very dependent on being wealthy

>Of course, in many countries the ability to get an advanced degree is not very dependent on being wealthy I... find your assertion to be unlikely. Of course, I could be wrong. Do you have statistics? Is there a country where there is not a very strong correlation between high parental income and advanced degrees?

Most of the people in my PhD lab were paid to be there, fees waived and 50% from what would be described as low income backgrounds - anecdotal I know, but in the UK you don't need to be wealthy to get an advanced degree ... although getting the first degree got a bit more expensive a couple of years ago.

Re: Vancouver tech surges as U.S. immigration reform idles

#217

Post by simonbarker87 »

turar wrote: post #19

This is a repeat of the same story that happened the last time H-1B limit didn't meet the demand for visas. US tech companies, most notably Microsoft, opened "offices" in Vancouver. What happens next is that those employees will work for 1 year in Canada, and then will become eligible for L-1 intra-company transfer back to the US, side-stepping the H-1B quagmire.

Also, an L-1 visa gives your spouse an L-2 working visa unlike an H1B which doesn't allow your spouse to work (at least as I understand it)

Re: Vancouver tech surges as U.S. immigration reform idles

#218

Post by bojan »

fennecfoxen wrote: post #80
pekk wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American citizens are not entitled to work in the EU. If an American wants to plan their long-term life around working in the EU, that is far from a sure thing. Even with a masters and PhD. So why should the US be singled out for this?

In the UK they at least aim to give you a decision on your visa in ~3 weeks at least 90% of the time, and there isn't just one window during which you're allowed to apply. https://www.gov.uk/tier-2-general/overview Germany hopes for 1-3 months: http://www.germany.info/Vertretung/usa/en/05__Legal/02__Dire... (Coincidentally, I'm trying to relocate to the UK -- or an English-language friendly part of the EU, like the N…

Depending on where exactly you are from, the Dutch process will impose an exam on you and an income requirement for your partner, and can take anywhere from 3 to 6 months.

Easier process than in the US, but not exactly an easy one.

Re: Vancouver tech surges as U.S. immigration reform idles

#219

Post by w1ntermute »

x0x0 wrote: post #117
paul wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that I also mentioned state and local government, it should be clear that I'm referring to more than just immigration issues. I get your point though. I'm an evil capitalist who doesn't want to fund Americans because they are unwilling to give up 7% equity, or something like that. Maybe you think that Sergey Brin and Paul Graham stole their jobs from some hard working, native born Americans. That's the problem…

My point is you're asking for visa changes to directly benefit, well, you. With most likely only tenuous benefits for others. And frankly, I do believe that Google -- and yes, YC too, viewing YC as somewhat of an umbrella organization of the companies it has incubated -- bear a certain responsibility to Americans that importing foreign workers has helped you sidestep. There's plenty of engineers here who can't / don'…

From the demographics, it's quite clear that SV has no problem with non-whites. And if you compare the graduation demographics in technical disciplines with hiring demographics, you'll see that all groups are fairly represented.

If certain groups of non-whites are not receiving the education required to contribute in SV, that isn't the responsibility of SV to fix. That's the job of the government and the schools. And it's on the communities where those underrepresented minorities grow up to change their toxic cultures so they don't look down on being educated as "acting white."

Re: Vancouver tech surges as U.S. immigration reform idles

#220

Post by curiousDog »

inoop wrote: post #66

Earlier this year I interviewed for a research/engineering position at Apple. I was offered the job, took it, and went into the H1B lottery. It took the USCIS four months to let me know that my application was not selected, even though it was filed under 'premium processing', and the draw had been done using a computer in the first week after submissions closed. Since the job required me to be in Cupertino, the deal…

You know why you lost the lottery? Because Indian outsourcing firms like Infosys, Wipro flooded it with applications to bring in cheap labor! There's no talent or extraordinary ability among the people they bring in. IMO, outsourcing companies should be banned from h1-b/greencard, period. Banning them, I doubt the H1-B quota will even fill-up

EDIT: In response to the downvoters, Im Indian myself and I know the quality of candidates these bodyshopper/outsourcing companies bring in. They are pretty much the bottom rung if the Indian education system. Most of them barely even speak/write English legibly. They also bring an incredibly bad name to the rest of the Indian developer community.

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