Vancouver tech surges as U.S. immigration reform idles • Hacker News Board

Re: Vancouver tech surges as U.S. immigration reform idles

#191

Post by ulfw » Mon, Aug 11, 2014, 9:29 AM UTC

trusche wrote: post #158

disbelief wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Countries in the EU (and elsewhere) have more sane immigration systems. As a Canadian having immigrated to both Germany and the US, I can say that the US system is at least two orders of magnitude more difficult, costly, needlessly complicated, and in the end a lot of it comes down to luck (most of it bad). Germany has no lottery system, and renewal is very straightforward. I applied for my visa while in Germany as a…

This. For comparison, when I had to renew my H1B for another 3 years, I had to leave the country and fly to Berlin for my "visa interview". But first I had to send them my passport, which of course I needed to get into Germany first. So after a lot of expense, several days of wasted time, and anxiety if the courier would deliver my passport on time, the "interview" took all of one minute (handing me my passport back…

This type of thing has been my experience dealing with many US agencies from federal/immigration related to the local/state level. Recently I went to California's DMV to renew my driver's license. I wanted to do this 8 months before it expires, because at the time it looked like I will be outside the country for a couple of months for work. To my utter surprise, I was forced to take a new written test because you can only 'renew a driver's license within 6 months of it's expiry date' without taking a new test. How this makes sense AT ALL boggles my mind. I could understand having to take a test if you lapse your expiry date and try to renew, say, two months too late. But renewing EARLY? Why? How? They also couldn't tell me what would happen to my (still valid) license, if I happen to fail the test. Thankfully I didn't.

Re: Vancouver tech surges as U.S. immigration reform idles

#192

Post by ulfw » Mon, Aug 11, 2014, 9:40 AM UTC

paul wrote: post #67

x0x0 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are referring to recent proposed visa changes, you appear to be defining dysfunctional as not passing visa programs very beneficial to a tiny group of people: incubators like YC, and owners / large investors in tech dependent startups. As not a member of those groups, that's quite a stretch.

Given that I also mentioned state and local government, it should be clear that I'm referring to more than just immigration issues. I get your point though. I'm an evil capitalist who doesn't want to fund Americans because they are unwilling to give up 7% equity, or something like that. Maybe you think that Sergey Brin and Paul Graham stole their jobs from some hard working, native born Americans. That's the problem…

Very true! Just to think that today a Sergey Brin or an Alexander Graham Bell or a Jerry Yang or a Pierre Omidyar might not have been able to start their billion dollar businesses that employ millions of Americans, if they just happened to have not won a LOTTERY. The system has always been broken. But it gets more and more broken as time progresses. Sad.

Re: Vancouver tech surges as U.S. immigration reform idles

#193

Post by cangencer » Mon, Aug 11, 2014, 9:42 AM UTC

myth_drannon wrote: post #64

Just a personal example, a friend of mine was looking for a web dev position in Montreal for months until he found some low paying crappy job, he then decided to move to Vancouver and found a job within 3 weeks! Vancouver job market is burning hot and startups are having difficulties hiring, I read some even consider setting up offices in Montreal.

Regarding the Canadian visa situation, how easy is it for a non-resident senior Java dev to find a job in Vancouver and get sponsorship for a visa? Here in UK most companies will not even consider applicants who are not residents.

Re: Vancouver tech surges as U.S. immigration reform idles

#194

Post by ulfw » Mon, Aug 11, 2014, 9:45 AM UTC

bdamm wrote: post #166

BrainInAJar wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm Canadian, and I've rejected countless job offers because it'd mean ~6 years of my spouse not being able to work until we get green cards.

It's not so bad if you spend some of that time raising children :)

Try to raise children on one salary living in a high-cost city like San Francisco/Bay Area when the spouse can't work for six years. Then try to find a job after six years out of work. I have friends whose marriage broke because of similar situations.

Re: Vancouver tech surges as U.S. immigration reform idles

#195

Post by afafsd » Mon, Aug 11, 2014, 9:46 AM UTC

ulfw wrote: post #187

afafsd wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would that be?

Because a Google or Apple or Facebook can bid $100K+ to get someone a visa in this proposed auctioning system. A 10person startup couldn't reasonably.

But that's part of the labour budget. It's like saying that small companies can't compete with big companies for employees, because they can't afford to pay them as much.

If your small company wants to employ someone then you have to be willing to pay as much as a big company will for the same employee. And that goes whether you're just paying salary or paying salary plus visa price.

The only disadvantage I can see to small companies is that a big company could afford to buy visas in bulk at the start of the year and figure out what to do with them later, while a small company wouldn't buy visas until it had a specific employee in mind. So I'd make the auction monthly, not annual.

Re: Vancouver tech surges as U.S. immigration reform idles

#196

Post by bayesianhorse » Mon, Aug 11, 2014, 9:46 AM UTC

Stop this "immigration control" craziness. The reality in the US is sometimes, that it is easier for low-skilled immigrants to live in the US, than it is for high-skilled immigrants.

Why? Well, ask some of the 10million+ undocumented immigrants. They can live a better life in the US compared to their home countries, even undocumented. Tech workers or even middle-skilled workers take more issue with being "illegal" or "undocumented".

I think all immigration restrictions have to be put on the stand. Are they practical? Do they have a measurable benefit (beyond some hand-waving about supply and demand)? Do they have measurable negative impacts?

Re: Vancouver tech surges as U.S. immigration reform idles

#197

Post by ulfw » Mon, Aug 11, 2014, 9:49 AM UTC

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #170

paul wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that I also mentioned state and local government, it should be clear that I'm referring to more than just immigration issues. I get your point though. I'm an evil capitalist who doesn't want to fund Americans because they are unwilling to give up 7% equity, or something like that. Maybe you think that Sergey Brin and Paul Graham stole their jobs from some hard working, native born Americans. That's the problem…

Nice talking points, both of you. However, neither of you are actually addressing how to design the immigration system to function as a positive-sum game for both Americans and immigrants. This is a discussion that needs to be had, because the current immigration system is tilted, like so much else about USAian government right now, towards "give the capitalists whatever they need and if everyone else survives that's…

Then why make it about auctioning and highest bidder? It's a US visa for people to work in the US in hopes of benefitting US citizen. Then why not limit H1Bs to US companies (HQ in the US and not subsidiaries of international companies) only. Solves your stated problem of how the H1B system is currently misused without favoring big corporations over startup companies.

Re: Vancouver tech surges as U.S. immigration reform idles

#198

Post by ulfw » Mon, Aug 11, 2014, 9:52 AM UTC

jordanthoms wrote: post #135

turar wrote: post #19

This is a repeat of the same story that happened the last time H-1B limit didn't meet the demand for visas. US tech companies, most notably Microsoft, opened "offices" in Vancouver. What happens next is that those employees will work for 1 year in Canada, and then will become eligible for L-1 intra-company transfer back to the US, side-stepping the H-1B quagmire.

Problem with the L1 is that as I understand it, if you are on a L1 you can't apply for a green card or a H1B to stay more permanently in the US. So you are basically wedded to the company you have the visa with.

Which a cynic might argue, is something in the interest of the company sponsoring you for said L1.

Re: Vancouver tech surges as U.S. immigration reform idles

#199

Post by ulfw » Mon, Aug 11, 2014, 9:56 AM UTC

cperciva wrote: post #90

yelnatz wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can imagine Seattle's weather, that's basically Vancouver.

Vancouver is about 2C cooler than Seattle, and gets about 10% less sunlight and 15% more rain. But yes, they're certainly quite similar.

I didn't think this was possible. Interesting.

Re: Vancouver tech surges as U.S. immigration reform idles

#200

Post by sjy » Mon, Aug 11, 2014, 10:02 AM UTC

blutoot wrote: post #78

_delirium wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's necessarily a bad strategy. The coalition to pass immigration reform is a mixture of immigration-rights activists on the left-ish side of the spectrum, and business advocates on the right-ish side of the spectrum. If you produce some cutouts narrowly addressing the staffing needs of some of the more influential businesses, they drop out of the coalition (because their own needs are satisfied) witho…

H1B is the only reasonable way a middle-class citizen of another nation can move to the US. Unless you can come up with a reasonable overnight replacement of that program, a lot of people will, rightfully, push for its expansion and not the other way around.

That is not true for all nations. Australians can apply for an E-3 visa, which is essentially an indefinitely-renewable H-1B with fewer restrictions and no lottery.