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Vancouver tech surges as U.S. immigration reform idles

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Re: Vancouver tech surges as U.S. immigration reform idles

#171

Post by wyclif »

davidw wrote: post #161
pekk wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American citizens are not entitled to work in the EU. If an American wants to plan their long-term life around working in the EU, that is far from a sure thing. Even with a masters and PhD. So why should the US be singled out for this?

Not job related, but family related: if you're married, here in Italy, you can stay, end of story. Effective immediately. In the US, the process is something like 6 months, although apparently there was/is a backlog, and they were taking something like a year to process applications for spouses . It gives you an idea of how screwed up the system is.

It doesn't take a year for spouses through USCIS. More like a few months.

Re: Vancouver tech surges as U.S. immigration reform idles

#172

Post by jordanthoms »

scg wrote: post #150
jordanthoms wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Problem with the L1 is that as I understand it, if you are on a L1 you can't apply for a green card or a H1B to stay more permanently in the US. So you are basically wedded to the company you have the visa with.

You can apply for a Green Card while you are on an L1 visa.

Sorry, I must have read something wrong somewhere, thought it wasn't dual intent.

Re: Vancouver tech surges as U.S. immigration reform idles

#173

Post by lsc »

bduerst wrote: post #144
rdtsc wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just curious, what would you have done to fix the root issue -- handling a large number of H1B requests? One answer is well why should there be a cap. Well there is a cap and one reason is probably because opening the gates wide open will skew the job market in US. For better or for worse it is hard to say but if you ask those in US they might say for worse. So there is a cap. (And obviously it is being pushed agains…

>there is a cap and one reason is probably because opening the gates wide open will skew the job market in US. Maybe. One of the factors evaluated for h1b approval is whether or not the immigrant's salary is higher than the mean wages for U.S. citizens working in the same SOC category in the same area. "Opening the floodgates" would only serve to skew the average salary upwards for citizens, which is good for skilled…

>One of the factors evaluated for h1b approval is whether or not the immigrant's salary is higher than the mean wages for U.S. citizens working in the same SOC category in the same area.

You can make many valid arguments for loosening the American immigration laws; but driving up the average wage because that's what the government mandate assumes that companies are irrational. A profit-maximizing company is only going to hire a H1B if they are cheaper than a US citizen per unit work.

(You could make an argument that increased immigration drives up wages by generally increasing economic activity in the destination country, sure... but that's a rather different argument.)

Re: Vancouver tech surges as U.S. immigration reform idles

#174

Post by eli_gottlieb »

prodigal_erik wrote: post #73
exstudent wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The internet is a good example of a culture than can exist if you do away with artificial barriers between groups of people. Modern immigration policy is not inherently correct and it wasn't devised during an age of hyper connectivity.

If the Internet had to ensure housing, food, and transportation would be available for every participant, we would be a lot more selective about granting access. Open borders made sense in the age of unsettled land, and they make sense when the marginal cost of delivering everything (i.e., only information) is nearly zero.

>If the Internet had to ensure housing, food, and transportation would be available for every participant, we would be a lot more selective about granting access.

Unfortunately, the US doesn't ensure anything at all for its own citizens, other than their God-given right to accumulate capital in unlimited amounts.

Re: Vancouver tech surges as U.S. immigration reform idles

#175

Post by eli_gottlieb »

jordanthoms wrote: post #143
jmspring wrote: post #142

This is a complicated topic that I've been waffling on responding too. The situation around h1b visas is messed up. But the mess is multisided. First off, there is a large amount of unemployment in this country in the IT sector (especially around older workers) and no apparent desire to fix it. Second, there are "sweat shops"/consulting bodies milking the system to under pay for what is often basic/menial work like C…

Seems one of the easier fixes would be to rank H1B applicants by salary rather than doing a lottery. It's supposed to be used for highly skilled workers, so I don't see why people would have a problem with it.

Companies would have a problem with this system because H1B is ostensibly about high-skilled workers who would be paid loads of money anyway, but as the statistics show, like most everything else involving employment and American state policy, it's actually about keeping labor cheap.

Re: Vancouver tech surges as U.S. immigration reform idles

#176

Post by moranlf »

NearAP wrote: post #141
inoop wrote: post #66

Earlier this year I interviewed for a research/engineering position at Apple. I was offered the job, took it, and went into the H1B lottery. It took the USCIS four months to let me know that my application was not selected, even though it was filed under 'premium processing', and the draw had been done using a computer in the first week after submissions closed. Since the job required me to be in Cupertino, the deal…

> It took the USCIS four months to let me know that my application was not selected.... Simply being curious here - didn't Apple provide you with the case ID? Typically, when you submit an Application to USCIS, you get an ID that allows you to check your status online and maybe you would have been able to know immediately that your application was not selected.

It doesn't work that way. Imagine that USCIS receives a huge pile of envelopes. They then run a lottery to decide which envelopes to open. The opened envelopes are then processed and the employer gets an ID for those cases. Only after ALL SELECTED cases were processed (some accpeted, some rejected, some pending more info), the closed envelopes are returned to the employer. This is why it takes months (4 in my case) to inform an applicant that he wasn't selected even though the lottery is the first stage of the process.

Re: Vancouver tech surges as U.S. immigration reform idles

#177

Post by lsc »

0xab wrote: post #168
mbesto wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your definition of sane? None of those countries have the scale, frequency and volume of demand that resembles anything like the US.[1] > Contrast that with how things work in the US (which I don't have time to get into in an HN comment), and you'll see why it deserves to be singled out for this. I don't think anyone is questioning that other countries have much more lax policies. The question is what is your…

In terms of immigrants as a percentage of population the US is nothing special. Canada has a lot more (closer to 19% instead of 14%). Many European countries have statistics similar to that of the US (Sweden has a bit more, the UK a bit less, etc). But I digress. The problem with the existing system is that it is insane and a waste of resources. One has to get a lawyer and wait for a long time with no certainty in th…

>It just makes no sense.

Now, I'm not saying this is right or wrong; it's a complex issue, and I am personally undecided. But you seem to be missing a major argument against the "points system" you describe.

The Canadian system explicitly biases the system in favor of the wealthy and well-educated. That's exactly what the "points" system is meant to do. Now, many people think this is a good thing; their argument is that wealthy and well educated people bring good things in to the country. I'm not saying they are wrong, I'm just saying that you should understand how some people feel that is unfair.

The US system does this to some extent, too, for instance the H1B visa is biased in just that way, and even for the lottery, we set minimum "you can likely support yourself" levels, And we have special ways for really wealthy people to jump the queue, and of course, the way the lottery is set up, one could argue, is quite racist. But you can also make the argument that the US lottery system is a lot more fair to people that have the ability to support themselves, but maybe weren't wealthy enough to get an advanced degree.

Re: Vancouver tech surges as U.S. immigration reform idles

#178

Post by projectmayhem »

inoop wrote: post #66

Earlier this year I interviewed for a research/engineering position at Apple. I was offered the job, took it, and went into the H1B lottery. It took the USCIS four months to let me know that my application was not selected, even though it was filed under 'premium processing', and the draw had been done using a computer in the first week after submissions closed. Since the job required me to be in Cupertino, the deal…

I have a friend in a similar situation (eerily similar). Apple moved him to Vancouver to reside until they can get a visa for the US, but in the meantime more & more employees are being 'stationed' in Canada, which opens up the opportunity to simply setup a facility there instead of hustling the US system.

Canada has been a regular "holding pattern" location for Europeans trying to get to the US. It's about time Canadian authorities realised they could exploit this for their own economic gain.

Re: Vancouver tech surges as U.S. immigration reform idles

#179

Post by afafsd »

hkmurakami wrote: post #162
WildUtah wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An auction is the obvious solution. Submit bids with your application for the fee to be paid yearly to the USA and the highest bidders get the H1-B visas. There's no need to raise the cap and all the Apples and Googles get all the applicants they want. Today the majority of H1-B visas go to Wipro and Infosys and the like for low paid tech grunts; Apple won't have any trouble outbidding them. And those tech grunt comp…

With an auction system like that, basically every small business will be out of the picture then.

Why would that be?

Re: Vancouver tech surges as U.S. immigration reform idles

#180

Post by Dewie »

refurb wrote: post #134
Mandatum wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To say non-American countries have easier immigration systems on the basis that it is demand related is in my opinion, absurd. Australia, New Zealand, UK, Canada and many European countries have massive demand. However you'll find most of these countries have opted to sell residency, albeit through business and job investments. Generally skilled workers have to be sought for locally before they get someone over. Usin…

A recent gallup survey says 150M people would move to the US if they could, the UK was a distant second at 45M [1]. As for the lottery, how else could it be done? There is a cap on H1-B visa each year. The USCIS receives more applications than spots the first day you can apply . [1] http://www.gallup.com/poll/153992/150-million-adults-worldwi...

> A recent gallup survey says 150M people would move to the US if they could, the UK was a distant second at 45M

Now adjust those numbers to the population of those countries... oh look, the UK all of a sudden came out ahead.

All of these studies comparing numbers usually just boils down to "The US is big". It has been brought up elsewhere that Canada, for example, has more immigrants as a percentage of population. But of course when comparing absolute numbers to the US, it will look like peanuts.

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