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The Trucking Industry Needs More Drivers. Maybe It Needs to Pay More

nytimes.com

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Re: The Trucking Industry Needs More Drivers. Maybe It Needs to Pay More

#71

Post by sanswork »

judk wrote: post #64
idlewords wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Automation doesn't mean having to solve every problem simultaneously. You can still pay a driver to stay with the truck, and handle the fueling and loading. Just being able to keep the truck moving while the driver is required by law to rest will be a huge win.

Then the automation doesn't solve the staffing problem, it just perpetuates forced pseudo-downtime that drivers get underpaid for.

Say you have two trucks doing a cross country run(on the I-10 to keep things easy) and a return run. One with an automated system that can drive while the driver sleeps and one without.

Truck A: Can drive 24 hours a day and can cover the distance there and back in about 3 days

Truck B: Can drive 11 hours a day and can cover the distance in ~7 days.

The first Driver can do the trip twice in the same amount of time. Halving the number of drivers required for that route or freeing up drivers on that route for other jobs.

Re: The Trucking Industry Needs More Drivers. Maybe It Needs to Pay More

#72

Post by Terr_ »

tdicola wrote: post #58
l33tbro wrote: post #43

Hmmm, why are we still talking about truck drivers exactly? The trucking industry is about to tank hard. Mercedes demo'd its first driverless truck a couple of weeks ago (!). Yes, there will be specialists drivers sure and niche companies. But the day of the interstate road train will be done shortly. The biggest new niche in my mind will be vehicle security. These trucks will be flying solo across the nation - unman…

I like your optimism, but realistically self driving trucks on American highways are a long way off. How will the trucks refuel? How will they handle loading and unloading? How will they handle inclement weather? What is the insurance liability for putting them on public roads? Who will be sued when a driverless truck crashes into another car (at fault or not)? Even Mercedes says in that article, "the Highway Pilot s…

I think it's a false-dilemma to assume it needs to be total automation or nothing at all.

What about "trains" of trucks, where the first truck is piloted and the rest follow? That'd be significantly easier to engineer, and there'd be a person on-site for miscellaneous needs like gassing them up.

Re: The Trucking Industry Needs More Drivers. Maybe It Needs to Pay More

#73

Post by briandh »

This is way too far down the fold:

> For example, new safety requirements mean that individual truckers drive fewer miles than a decade ago: An average long-haul truck can now cover 8,000 miles a month, down from almost 11,000 in 2007, according to the trade association.

So the maximum miles driven per month is 73% of what it was in 2007, whereas the inflation-adjusted salary is 97% (based on eyeballing the graph) of what it was.

Now, if despite the higher maximum drivers were going, say 9000 miles a month before 2007, the difference would be less stark. Nevertheless, viewing from that perspective makes the situation seem much different.

Of course, that doesn't account for the 03-07 downward trend.

And while I do agree in theory that they should "just" raise wages if they need more drivers, we should be careful jumping to conclusions as outsiders. After all, it is possible, for instance, that paying new (and probably many existing) drivers more could eat up the revenues gained from the customers they're currently turning away. And moreover, said prospective customers could adapt so that by the time the trucking companies have enough drivers, the orders are no longer there.

Re: The Trucking Industry Needs More Drivers. Maybe It Needs to Pay More

#75

Post by msane »

A_COMPUTER wrote: post #62

My semi-retired parents were lured in by the claims of making upwards of 80K a year if you worked hard enough. They did it for about three years and quit with more debt than when they started. You can only make decent money if you own your own rig, which costs as much as a house. Trucking is heavily regulated, but in ways that dump all the problems on the drivers. You are in competition with other drivers, which pret…

I think automation will happen sooner than we expect. 5-8 years seems likely to me. There is a hurdle with interstate trucking, where some states will lag behind in allowing it and providing the required bureaucratic support. But it is already technologically possible, if not yet a fully developed product. It just takes one company to get it allowed in one state and start doing it, the others will follow. Self driving personal vehicles are 1-3 years away from being on the market, it seems natural that trucking will follow.

I think trained people might still handle the parking though for a while :P

Re: The Trucking Industry Needs More Drivers. Maybe It Needs to Pay More

#76

Post by georgemcbay »

msane wrote: post #75
A_COMPUTER wrote: post #62

My semi-retired parents were lured in by the claims of making upwards of 80K a year if you worked hard enough. They did it for about three years and quit with more debt than when they started. You can only make decent money if you own your own rig, which costs as much as a house. Trucking is heavily regulated, but in ways that dump all the problems on the drivers. You are in competition with other drivers, which pret…

I think automation will happen sooner than we expect. 5-8 years seems likely to me. There is a hurdle with interstate trucking, where some states will lag behind in allowing it and providing the required bureaucratic support. But it is already technologically possible, if not yet a fully developed product. It just takes one company to get it allowed in one state and start doing it, the others will follow. Self drivin…

Parking shouldn't be a difficult task for a self-driving truck; but I suspect there will be a 'driver' along for the ride well after the task is mostly automated, just to deal with exceptional circumstances (eg. flash flood has made road impassable in some way the automated truck cannot deal with) and also to act as a security guard so nobody robs the robo-truck.

Re: The Trucking Industry Needs More Drivers. Maybe It Needs to Pay More

#77

Post by icelancer »

winestock wrote: post #10
polarix wrote: post #5

> But corporate America has become so parsimonious about paying workers outside the executive suite that meaningful wage increases may seem an unacceptable affront. In this environment, it may be easier to say “There is a shortage of skilled workers” than “We aren’t paying our workers enough,” even if, in economic terms, those come down to the same thing.

As far as I know, that equivalence betwixt "shortage of workers" and "not paying workers enough" holds for economists as far apart as Milton Friedman and John Maynard Keynes. That makes management's policy especially inexcusable.

Right. It's not an economics problem, even! Just math!

Re: The Trucking Industry Needs More Drivers. Maybe It Needs to Pay More

#78

Post by rmason »

tapp wrote: post #39
rmason wrote: post #35

I've got a good friend with his Masters degree who quit teaching school to drive a truck because it paid so much more. He makes a great deal more than $41 K a year. It must depend on the particular company and the alternatives where you live.

I researched this a bunch at one point. Some of the primary variables are: * Licensure (e.g. if you have a Hazmat endorsement) * Route type (Long haul pays a lot more) * Driver's safety record * Employment status - Independent contractors who own their own rig vs captive employees Etc.

My friend picks up high end foreign cars at the port and takes them to the different dealerships. They're very high priced vehicles and the company is extremely fussy about every step of the process. Most of his fellow drivers are college graduates by the way.

Re: The Trucking Industry Needs More Drivers. Maybe It Needs to Pay More

#79

Post by afafsd »

winestock wrote: post #10
polarix wrote: post #5

> But corporate America has become so parsimonious about paying workers outside the executive suite that meaningful wage increases may seem an unacceptable affront. In this environment, it may be easier to say “There is a shortage of skilled workers” than “We aren’t paying our workers enough,” even if, in economic terms, those come down to the same thing.

As far as I know, that equivalence betwixt "shortage of workers" and "not paying workers enough" holds for economists as far apart as Milton Friedman and John Maynard Keynes. That makes management's policy especially inexcusable.

Well, there can't be all that big a shortage anyway.

Last time I went to the US I found that supermarkets were stocked with food, gas stations with fuel, and lumber yards with lumber, so it seems that stuff is still getting from where it is to where it needs to be quite effectively.

Re: The Trucking Industry Needs More Drivers. Maybe It Needs to Pay More

#80

Post by Yardlink »

Terr_ wrote: post #72
tdicola wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like your optimism, but realistically self driving trucks on American highways are a long way off. How will the trucks refuel? How will they handle loading and unloading? How will they handle inclement weather? What is the insurance liability for putting them on public roads? Who will be sued when a driverless truck crashes into another car (at fault or not)? Even Mercedes says in that article, "the Highway Pilot s…

I think it's a false-dilemma to assume it needs to be total automation or nothing at all. What about "trains" of trucks, where the first truck is piloted and the rest follow? That'd be significantly easier to engineer, and there'd be a person on-site for miscellaneous needs like gassing them up.

One of the major advantages of trucks over trains is precisely that - they're not trains. Making them trains would take away all the flexibility they currently have. If you're taking coal from the mine to the power station then you're probably already using a train. Anything less predictable needs individual trucks.
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