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The Trucking Industry Needs More Drivers. Maybe It Needs to Pay More

nytimes.com

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Re: The Trucking Industry Needs More Drivers. Maybe It Needs to Pay More

#41

Post by ewams »

rayiner wrote: post #7
polarix wrote: post #5

> But corporate America has become so parsimonious about paying workers outside the executive suite that meaningful wage increases may seem an unacceptable affront. In this environment, it may be easier to say “There is a shortage of skilled workers” than “We aren’t paying our workers enough,” even if, in economic terms, those come down to the same thing.

The "worker shortage" concept is seriously one of the dumbest memes of corporate America. There's a ton of people out of work, and it doesn't take much in the way of skill to be a truck driver. Companies simply aren't paying enough for what can be a very demanding job.

They pay $1.10 per mile in my area plus gas.

Re: The Trucking Industry Needs More Drivers. Maybe It Needs to Pay More

#42

Post by sliverstorm »

x0x0 wrote: post #32
polarix wrote: post #5

> But corporate America has become so parsimonious about paying workers outside the executive suite that meaningful wage increases may seem an unacceptable affront. In this environment, it may be easier to say “There is a shortage of skilled workers” than “We aren’t paying our workers enough,” even if, in economic terms, those come down to the same thing.

And it's not like trucking is a good job. For that princely (!!!) $41k / year, you are often away from home. I'd bet you don't get comped for all the meals you eat on the road either, so there goes a bunch of money spent eating out, even if it is just at truck stop diners. If you have a family, and and your partner has a job -- as he or she must, given that shit salary -- knock $4-$10k/year off for daycare as well. I…

It used to be considered a pretty good job, from what my father tells me. I believe what it boiled down to was, the pay was good, given that the qualifications are low.

Re: The Trucking Industry Needs More Drivers. Maybe It Needs to Pay More

#43

Post by l33tbro »

Hmmm, why are we still talking about truck drivers exactly?

The trucking industry is about to tank hard. Mercedes demo'd its first driverless truck a couple of weeks ago (!). Yes, there will be specialists drivers sure and niche companies. But the day of the interstate road train will be done shortly.

The biggest new niche in my mind will be vehicle security. These trucks will be flying solo across the nation - unmanned. How will these trucks be fitted out against good ol' fashioned highway robbers in remote areas that are barely on the grid?

Fun times ahead.

(!). http://www.caradvice.com.au/295713/self-driving-mercedes-ben...

Re: The Trucking Industry Needs More Drivers. Maybe It Needs to Pay More

#44

Post by [deleted] »

Havvy wrote: post #16
winestock wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I know, that equivalence betwixt "shortage of workers" and "not paying workers enough" holds for economists as far apart as Milton Friedman and John Maynard Keynes. That makes management's policy especially inexcusable.

Even as far apart as Mises and Keynes.

[deleted]

Re: The Trucking Industry Needs More Drivers. Maybe It Needs to Pay More

#45

Post by scarmig »

thrownaway2424 wrote: post #26
scarmig wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are slightly different, though I agree that most of the time it's a matter of greedy or shortsighted executives being cheap or expecting workers to bear the cost of training. How they're different: you may well have a situation where the short term supply of workers is highly inelastic. In that situation, paying more won't help any shortage. And some jobs that you would think are elastic in the long term aren't…

For any individual trucking firm in a liquid market served by several such firms, the driver market is in fact highly elastic. If this Swift Transportation company which is featured in the article wanted to avoid a 20% decline in their share price, they merely had to walk into the break room at the competing trucking company and offer $10,000 spot bonuses to switch companies. Boom. Elastic. Anyway, Swift's annual rep…

According to the article, the shortage is industry wide. The result of what you suggest would be a bidding war for the existing truckers, until the point the bidding has devoured all economic profit. We don't see that happening, clearly.

My hypothesis of implicit or explicit collusion among the dwindling number of trucking firms to drive down wages instead of drawing on supposedly elastic supply manages to explain that, on the other hand. The only other possibility would be an industry wide miscalculation that just happens to look the same as widespread collusion.

Re: The Trucking Industry Needs More Drivers. Maybe It Needs to Pay More

#46

Post by sanswork »

l33tbro wrote: post #43

Hmmm, why are we still talking about truck drivers exactly? The trucking industry is about to tank hard. Mercedes demo'd its first driverless truck a couple of weeks ago (!). Yes, there will be specialists drivers sure and niche companies. But the day of the interstate road train will be done shortly. The biggest new niche in my mind will be vehicle security. These trucks will be flying solo across the nation - unman…

>How will these trucks be fitted out against good ol' fashioned highway robbers in remote areas that are barely on the grid?

They would handle it the exact same way the ones with drivers do. They would do nothing while it is happening but contact the police and claim insurance. The only difference is no one is at risk of dying and they will likely have video evidence.

Re: The Trucking Industry Needs More Drivers. Maybe It Needs to Pay More

#47

Post by hibikir »

lgleason wrote: post #19

Sounds like the same argument being used for more H1B visas. We cant find enough (cheap) resources locally so we need to import some from elsewhere willing to work for a pittance.

The strength of the argument changes with market elasticity.

If a single company has trouble hiring, they can raise salaries. However, if the pool of workers remains finite, all you are really doing is switching which company has the hiring problem. If two people need an all day plumbing job done today, and there's only one plumber in time, one of them is not going to get it done, regardless of how much they pay.

So when we look industry-wide, what the salary increases do is make people change professions. If it takes the same effort to become a truck driver than a cab driver, but the truck driver makes 4 times as much, everything else being equal, we'll have more trouble finding people to be cabbies, as long as there's an opportunity trucking. People then decide which training they get to choose. But the real demand problem is not solved until the workers are trained.

We don't even need workers for this. Imagine that we suddenly need 60 million gallons of 25 year old scotch every day. It doesn't matter how much we want to pay: There isn't enough scotch to meet demand today. If we paid a million dollars a bottle, it'd not make a difference: We'd only get an increase in supply as time goes by, and people just put more scotch on casks, and don't open the casks at 15 years, because 25 makes more money: But nothing is going to make this demand shock get fixed earlier, no matter how much you pay.

So the harder it is to actually perform the job, and the longer it takes to train, the stronger the immigration argument gets.

Re: The Trucking Industry Needs More Drivers. Maybe It Needs to Pay More

#48

Post by twothamendment »

the_ancient wrote: post #21

It is not a matter of paying "more" but changing how they pay Most Truckers are paid by the mile... So if your sitting in traffic no pay (next time your stopped in traffic look around, how many semi's are sitting with you, most of those drivers are doing it for free) Then there is load and unload time, which for some companies is non-paid, other is a nominal flat rate of like $35 that could take up hours of your day.…

You started down the right road. Much of their pay has to do with how they are paid. There are trucking companies that don't pay drivers to fuel the truck. Do you know how long that takes? It isn't like it is an optional task - that truck won't move without fuel.

I know a driver who spends 2-6 hours waiting to be unloaded. He doesn't get paid for that time but isn't free to leave the truck because when the loading dock is ready for him he needs to be there to move the truck. How is that not being "on call"? If he wasn't working he could go catch a movie or dinner, sleep or whatever, but for some reason the law says it is OK to make him sit without pay to do his job.

Re: The Trucking Industry Needs More Drivers. Maybe It Needs to Pay More

#49

Post by twothamendment »

makomk wrote: post #18
fiatmoney wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"it doesn't take much in the way of skill to be a truck driver" It's harder than you'd think to do a perfect 90 degree backup of a full-size semi into a loading dock without jackknifing, or to develop the temperament to pay attention to a boring stretch of highway for 8 hours at a time. You're being trusted with a lot of valuable equipment and cargo, to say nothing of the insurance risk should you flatten someone's M…

Also, the working conditions in the industry are apparently not great - lots of management incompetence, unrealistic expectations, and pressure to break safety laws, and it's never the people pressuring the drivers into breaking the rules that get into trouble.

Yes, like incompetent management who tells a driver in freezing temperatures that they will not reimburse him for fuel additive to keep the truck from gelling up. Management was in Florida. The truck was in Montana. Eventually a call to a mechanic with a clue got the expense approved.

If there is a way for management to push a driver to cook the log book, they will. The best thing for drivers is the electronic log book that can't lie.

Re: The Trucking Industry Needs More Drivers. Maybe It Needs to Pay More

#50

Post by twothamendment »

l33tbro wrote: post #43

Hmmm, why are we still talking about truck drivers exactly? The trucking industry is about to tank hard. Mercedes demo'd its first driverless truck a couple of weeks ago (!). Yes, there will be specialists drivers sure and niche companies. But the day of the interstate road train will be done shortly. The biggest new niche in my mind will be vehicle security. These trucks will be flying solo across the nation - unman…

Can the driver-less truck put chains on its tires in the winter? I didn't think so.

I'm sure that we'll make use of the tech we have but there is so much more to driving a truck than driving. Maybe the "drivers" will be able to climb in the back and sleep while the truck does they driving and they can take care of everything else.

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