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LinkedIn to pay nearly $6M in unpaid overtime wages and damages to 359 employees

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Re: LinkedIn to pay nearly $6M in unpaid overtime wages and damages to 359 employees

#161

Post by shepardrtc »

endeavor wrote: post #131
shepardrtc wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked for a University that classified some maintenance workers (among others) as exempt using the excuse that they had "supervisory" duties. The reality was that these people were on-call 24/7 and would have to come in whenever there was a problem, in addition to working a 40 hour week. Overtime was becoming expensive, so upper management decided that their duties weren't really fixing things, but rather supervis…

IIRC in California you need to have at least 2 direct reports to be considered a supervisor vis-a-vis exempt status.

This isn't in California, but to get around that idea, they made other workers "report" to them. So technically they are the supervisor. But they have no authority other than to enter in time tickets.

Re: LinkedIn to pay nearly $6M in unpaid overtime wages and damages to 359 employees

#162

Post by shepardrtc »

johnward wrote: post #157
shepardrtc wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked for a University that classified some maintenance workers (among others) as exempt using the excuse that they had "supervisory" duties. The reality was that these people were on-call 24/7 and would have to come in whenever there was a problem, in addition to working a 40 hour week. Overtime was becoming expensive, so upper management decided that their duties weren't really fixing things, but rather supervis…

I was in a similar position working support for a large international shipping company. I would work my 40 hours (day/afternoon/midnight) and then be required to take calls off hours. For example if I worked 6pm to 6am I would be required to wake up at 10am (mid sleep cycle) and join a BS staff meeting. Also if a major issue started during your shift you were expected to stay and handle it when you could turn it over…

Yes, that's very similar. Management had few qualms about abusing employees like that. It was one of many reasons why I left the company.

Re: LinkedIn to pay nearly $6M in unpaid overtime wages and damages to 359 employees

#163

Post by Chronic29 »

roel_v wrote: post #135
yulaow wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't you just signal to authorities or unions that you were dismissed for that reason (that is not a "good enough" reason on my state) and basically fuck up the entire company considering that that guidelines document would come up in even the simplest investigation? This would put your employer in a weak position, so weak you can easily even blackmail him

Have you ever held a real job? Because your understanding of EU employment law and practices sounds very naive, to put it mildly.

And how would you put it bluntly?

Re: LinkedIn to pay nearly $6M in unpaid overtime wages and damages to 359 employees

#164

Post by crdoconnor »

mynewwork wrote: post #123
pudo wrote: post #72

This is one of these HN discussion moments when you, our American friends, just have imagine all of Europe sitting with an open mouth, enjoying the radical feeling of labour law disaster tourism.

Funny, "labor law disaster tourism" could also explain how an American feels visiting Spain, France or Italy right now. No system is perfect, but let's not pretend labor laws in the EU don't come with massive downsides (unemployment, difficulty to start or grow a business, purchasing power of discretionary income). Here's a simple rule of thumb for understanding the situation in the US: if you have to be at work at a…

>No system is perfect, but let's not pretend labor laws in the EU don't come with massive downsides (unemployment, difficulty to start or grow a business, purchasing power of discretionary income).

Unemployment wasn't caused by labor laws, it was caused by intentionally destructive pan-EU fiscal policy.

Difficulty to start or grow a business - compared to silicon valley, maybe. Fewer investors / smaller markets. Not really a labor law thing.

Purchasing power of discretionary income - caused by the high dollar, which is in turn caused by US military hegemony. Not labor laws.

Re: LinkedIn to pay nearly $6M in unpaid overtime wages and damages to 359 employees

#165

Post by maerF0x0 »

rmrfrmrf wrote: post #132
maerF0x0 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me it begs the question why there is an exempt class? To me its like saying some people are exempt from the realities that inform the 40 hr work week. Things like productivity research, health and wellness research etc.

Not every job is based around clocking in and clocking out, though, and there are a lot of complications for things like traveling, lunch meetings, and business trips. There are also strict laws about overtime pay and the max time that a person is allowed to work before being required a break. There's also the issue of employees recording their own times worked (it's a compliance nightmare that can lead to lots of pa…

Of course not all jobs are based around clocking in and clocking out production line style. However, that knowledge informs when the hours are performed, not the quantity of hours.

If your job duties are flexible and can be performed at anytime, why not pay "overtime" when someone has to work 60 hrs a week to cover their duties (or not get "let go" due to appearances) ?

Dont get me wrong, I know ahead of time that I will be required to work more than 40 hrs a week and thus price it into my salary, making the overall points a little moot in practice. But, there is something odd, a smell of sorts, about saying "You get your salary for 40 hrs a week, and the other 20 are not paid" ...

Say I would only work for $30 an hour, and I know the employer is going to require 60 hrs a week of work, then I'd only settle for a salary that is 3000*30 = $90k a year. If the employer has a standard that says "I will pay you for overtime" then I can accept a salary of 60k a year and know that I will make $30k in overtime pay.

The real hard part comes when the work is presumed the later and is the former in reality. One takes a wage on the presumption of 40 hrs a week and ends up working 60.. decreasing their compensation for time by 33% .

Re: LinkedIn to pay nearly $6M in unpaid overtime wages and damages to 359 employees

#166

Post by jonathansizz »

fred_durst wrote: post #127
jonathansizz wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? I know a couple of guys who work nights at Wal-Mart, and they make around $10/hr.

My back of the napkin put $50K @ 60 hours put at just above $13/hr base rate. Taking a look at Glassdoor, my guess would be several years of small raises would get you pretty close. http://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/night-stocker-salary-SRCH_... I would assume it depends on the part of the country you are in as well.

60 hours/week x 50 weeks/year = 3,000 hours/year. $50,000/3,000 hours = $16.67/hour.

In any case, I don't believe that these companies will give overtime. In fact, your glassdoor link doesn't show any company paying over $30,000/year to their night workers, with the average being around $25,000.

Re: LinkedIn to pay nearly $6M in unpaid overtime wages and damages to 359 employees

#167

Post by mreiland »

Kluny wrote: post #115
mreiland wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

does it really matter when they did the thing in the first place? It's like congratulating a car thief for being an upstanding citizen because they admitted to the thievery and promised never to do it again after paying a fine.

It could very well have been an unintentional violation of the rules. A few bad habits here and there turn into a cultural practice before anyone notices, everyone assumes that someone else must be in charge of enforcing compliance with that particular rule and that mythical someone must know something they don't that makes the rule breaking okay, somehow. It's easy to do. Never ascribe to malice what can be covered…

The company is still responsible for that, it doesn't mattter why.

Do you think that consumer cares if the lack of PCI compliance caused them to have their CC information stolen and used because someone internally thought someone else was responsible for PCI compliance?

If you choose to store CC information it's your responsibility to make sure you're PCI compliant, if you employ people, it's your responsibility to make sure they get paid.

Re: LinkedIn to pay nearly $6M in unpaid overtime wages and damages to 359 employees

#168

Post by aianus »

vidarh wrote: post #148
hueving wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Basically for me is very hard to understand why I should work for free ( I could want to work overtime for free, but if I am imposed to work overtime I must be paid) If you are in software engineering, the answer is that the US pays the best salaries in the world. You are not working for free if you are salaried. You sign a contract to fulfill certain duties regardless of the amount of time it takes.

> US pays the best salaries in the world. No, a few small regions in the US pays amongst the best salaries in the world. Most of the US have software engineering salaries that are nothing special. And lots of places in Europe have plenty of jobs at similar salary levels to e.g. Silicon Valley. > You are not working for free if you are salaried. You sign a contract to fulfill certain duties regardless of the amount of…

> And lots of places in Europe have plenty of jobs at similar salary levels to e.g. Silicon Valley.

Honest question: where? Switzerland? And how much are we talking? A fresh 22-year-old graduate can easily make $110k + stock his first year out of school in SV.

Re: LinkedIn to pay nearly $6M in unpaid overtime wages and damages to 359 employees

#169

Post by fred_durst »

jonathansizz wrote: post #166
fred_durst wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My back of the napkin put $50K @ 60 hours put at just above $13/hr base rate. Taking a look at Glassdoor, my guess would be several years of small raises would get you pretty close. http://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/night-stocker-salary-SRCH_... I would assume it depends on the part of the country you are in as well.

60 hours/week x 50 weeks/year = 3,000 hours/year. $50,000/3,000 hours = $16.67/hour. In any case, I don't believe that these companies will give overtime. In fact, your glassdoor link doesn't show any company paying over $30,000/year to their night workers, with the average being around $25,000.

That is correct. That is why I said it was the "base rate". The example was to illustrate what the employment opportunity would look like if an employer of a developer had to pay an hourly rate with overtime pay, instead of being able to pay them as an exempt salaried employee.

Assuming the position required 60 hour work weeks(as a non trivial amount of developer positions do) this is what the two would look like for exactly the same final pay.

With salary one can say: $50,000/year

With hourly one would say: $13/hr + overtime

While being the exact same pay, it looks quite a bit different. No?

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