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Ask HN: Do you think machine consciousness is possible?

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Ask HN: Do you think machine consciousness is possible?

#11

Post by gruseom »

Let's address the easy part:

Do you think the Church-Turing thesis (anything that is computable is computable by a Turing machine) indicates that machine consciousness is possible?

Only if you assume that consciousness is a computation, which is assuming everything.

I normally try to resist this topic, but what you're saying here tugs at my heart-strings:

I'm now a little concerned that it may all be a waste. I'd prefer not to waste my life on something that turns out like the phlogiston theory.

Consider the total failure of algorithmic approaches to even begin, even pathetically, to replicate anything recognizable as consciousness. Were the people working on it dumber than you?

Try to find some way to control for the geek fantasy factor, in yourself and others, before deciding what to do.

(By the way, now I'm curious: what was it that led you to "the scary idea that machine consciousness may not be possible"?)

Re: Ask HN: Do you think machine consciousness is possible?

#13

Post by robryan »

I think it is possible that some area's are going about the problem wrong way. With current hardware attempting to simulate the brain as it works I don't think is the viable option.

I seem to have the problem also that we are using the thing we are trying to simulate to work out how to simulate it. From our perspective the problem could be almost impossible.

Re: Ask HN: Do you think machine consciousness is possible?

#14

Post by matthew-wegner »

I look at consciousness fairly oddly:

I believe consciousness is an emergent property of a complex system; it is simply the nature of the universe that complex systems exhibit consciousness. I'm defining "complex system" as any system whose outputs/results affect the inputs/possible states. If I think something, the possibility space for my next thought is dependent upon my previous thought, and so on.

I think artificial consciousness research will progress, through computer simulation, to the point where a "real" consciousness emerges from a sufficiently complex simulation. The hard part will be mapping its inputs/outputs into human-compatible form; success will probably occur by accident at first. But when we can do this we'll be able to talk to a totally simulated consciousness through the prism of it being another "person".

At this point more research/thought will be put into the nature of consciousness itself, and how to connect with other-than-human consciousnesses. We'll use the experience of bridging communication with artificial consciousness to successfully communicate with naturally-occuring consciousnesses associated with other complex systems (the earth, a tree, the galaxy, etc). It sounds a little insane, but I totally think this is within the realm of possible in our lifetimes.

Of course, that's all based on the notion that consciousness is an emergent property of a complex system, and not something entirely unique or bestowed by higher powers or whatever.

Re: Ask HN: Do you think machine consciousness is possible?

#15

Post by reynolds »

byoung2 wrote: post #9

which "new lead" in computation do you think will allow it? I don't know if hardware is holding back progress in AI, especially with distributed computing; it is more likely a question of software and programming. I think in order for a computer to exhibit a reasonable facsimile of human intelligence, it will have to do more than just run programs written by humans. It would have to have the ability to write and rewr…

Are humans at a place where we can write and rewrite our own DNA?

Re: Ask HN: Do you think machine consciousness is possible?

#16

Post by drcode »

kevinpet wrote: post #8

If we assume that humans are conscious, then yes, it is possible for a machine to be conscious. The only arguments categorically differentiating humans from electronic machines are religious in nature. I define consciousness as having an internal model of the world that includes yourself, as well as your own though processes (at a lower degree of fidelity). This says how you compute things, not what you are computing…

Wouldn't you agree that it feels awfully "weird" to be a living, breathing human? Doesn't it seem to be beyond what can be expressed by mere computer algorithms?

I realize it is not a defensible argument to say that the human experience is just to "weird" to be computable- I wish I had a better argument for defending my position...

Nonetheless, I find it hard to understand people, such as yourself, that are probably exposed to this same "weirdness" in their heads as I am and yet are so confident it is merely an illusion created by a sufficiently complicated computation.

Re: Ask HN: Do you think machine consciousness is possible?

#17

Post by Tichy »

It's not all or nothing: even if true AI would not be achieved in your lifetime, there would still be loads of useful things with the stuff you learn.

As for the question, I am sure that it is possible (except I take issue with the word "consciousness" - what is it supposed to mean?).

Re: Ask HN: Do you think machine consciousness is possible?

#18

Post by lleger »

In short: yes.

I think it's painfully clear that sometime in the coming years humanity will reach the pinnacle of its scientific achievement with the advent of an artificially intelligent machine: one that is able to think and reason and is self-aware. Technology is moving at such a rapid pace and in the right direction that this is just the next logical step.

In order for this to occur, however, significant advances must be made in fields outside of technology; e.g. quantum computing will probably be a huge stepping stone, and for that to come to fruition we must first fully prove quantum mechanics.

Re: Ask HN: Do you think machine consciousness is possible?

#19

Post by coderdude »

codexon wrote: post #6

No one knows what human consciousness really is or if it even applies to other animals. Having said that, consciousness is not a requirement for intelligence. It would interesting, and plausible enough for self-improving AI as smart as a human to be developed without addressing the question of consciousness. For extra credit: No there is not enough evidence. Here is my opinion on this matter: It is possible to simula…

Consciousness isn't a unique body in our universe, it's a state. (so far as we can guess)

Re: Ask HN: Do you think machine consciousness is possible?

#20

Post by Ixiaus »

A point of clarification should be made here... Are you speaking of machine consciousness behaving similar to our own?

Human's consciousness is but one form, in my opinion. We are a complicated biological machine seeking the fulfillment of our existence; how is that any different than a machine seeking the fulfillment of its existence?

I believe the money is in self-evolving circuits and programming; allowing the machine to mold what defines its existence based on external parameters - and overtime, based on internal parameters (will to change).

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