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LinkedIn to pay nearly $6M in unpaid overtime wages and damages to 359 employees

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Re: LinkedIn to pay nearly $6M in unpaid overtime wages and damages to 359 employees

#71

Post by jameshart »

vvvv wrote: post #39
yulaow wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a EU citizen I hoped to see a /s under your post. I do not want to be rude but here it is obvious that if you work overtime you must be compensated and also very well (usually 1,5-2 times more than regular hours). And not only it, in some states, like mine, you can work only a limited amount of hours (6 or 8, I don't remember well) overtime per week, otherwise it is illegal.

In the UK, you typically sign a waiver, which says you may be require to work more than the statutory 37.5 hours per week.

UK implementation of the EU Working Time Directive allows employees to waive their rights. Mot of Europe doesn't have that model.

Re: LinkedIn to pay nearly $6M in unpaid overtime wages and damages to 359 employees

#73

Post by hmahncke »

tieTYT wrote: post #56
hmahncke wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In California, computer professionals paid under ~$85k are required to be non-exempt (hourly) and should be paid overtime [1] [1]: http://www.shrm.org/templatestools/hrqa/pages/california-min...

It keeps using the word "employee". How does this apply to contractors and consultants? Do they negotiate their own terms? Are high earning ones expected to be exempt like employees?

Exempt and non-exempt are terms that only apply to employees. Contractors would generally be expected work work hourly (like non-exempt) or on a project basis (like exempt) depending on their negotiated contract. But in general I don't think that this kind of employment law applies to contractors.

Re: LinkedIn to pay nearly $6M in unpaid overtime wages and damages to 359 employees

#74

Post by revelation »

logicallee wrote: post #40
walterbell wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One reason is lack of organized lobbying by IT/engineers: http://andreas.com/faq-overtime.html Another round of policy discussion is underway: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/12/us/politics/obama-will-see...

(Edited to be less sure.) A third reason might be the argument from market power stemming from the fact that if you can personally create $10 million of cold hard cash value using nothing but a bit of time in front of a computer, and with no long-term detrimental effects on you of any kind, then the fact that you are minting money creates a seller's market (just as there will always be a seller's market for legal cur…

That's such a beautiful poem of an idea. It all comes crashing down once it hits reality at a mere one mile per hour.

If you happen to be a tech writer, you are not exempt from overtime pay in California. Why is that, you ask? Are tech writers not minting money using a bit of time in front of a computer? Is there not a sellers market for tech writers?

But of course these are all the wrong questions to ask. It is because tech writers thought they deserved overtime pay, lobbied for it, and were granted their wishes. Scroll down for how that happened.

Scroll a bit further and you might realize that the original exemption was put in place by a long dead Republican senator from Idaho in 1990. I'm not convinced he had those deep insights into the market of computer professionals.

Re: LinkedIn to pay nearly $6M in unpaid overtime wages and damages to 359 employees

#75

Post by superuser2 »

gnarbarian wrote: post #28
jahewson wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, most HN readers are probably exempt due to the "computer employee" exemption: > Computer Employees: Those who work in computer-related occupations, for example computer systems analysts, computer programmers and computer software engineers, are exempt as long as their work involves a combination of primary duties that include applying systems analysis techniques and procedures, consulting with users to determine…

I wonder what (if there is one) the logical reason behind this exemption is.

It's intended to encourage growth by making employment cheaper.

Re: LinkedIn to pay nearly $6M in unpaid overtime wages and damages to 359 employees

#76

Post by zhng »

Iftheshoefits wrote: post #18
gnu8 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It persists partially because tech industry workers are especially susceptible to class confusion. That is, the startup culture stock option lottery deludes them into thinking they are a part of the ownership class rather than the working class. Thus, they allow basically all of the fruits of their labor to be stolen from them. That, and powerful lobbyists keep anything from changing.

Well put. Steinbeck's "temporarily embarrassed millionaires" quote also comes to mind here. It has far more broad application than merely as a suggested explanation for the failure of socialism to take root in America. I find it is a very useful shorthand to describe a great many interactions between labor and ownership in this country, whatever the industry. The tech industry is especially bad in that regard. It's n…

http://www.temporarilyembarrassedmillionaires.org/

Re: LinkedIn to pay nearly $6M in unpaid overtime wages and damages to 359 employees

#77

Post by spoondan »

larrys wrote: post #42
Smudge wrote: post #2

> This company has shown a great deal of integrity by fully cooperating with investigators and stepping up to the plate without hesitation to help make workers whole ... We are particularly pleased that LinkedIn also has committed to take positive and practical steps towards securing future compliance. I'm surprised they're getting praised so much for complying. It's not like they had a choice. Instead of commending…

As I've put in my other comment elsewhere I got hit with a DOL action many years ago. It definitely wasn't willful but we were running afoul of some hidden rule that even some lawyers had never heard of and didn't know about. One employee complained, they investigated and audited, and we got fined and had to pay back wages. I'm not commenting on why or what linkedin did only providing perspective that it can happen f…

I'm curious about your story. Did the employee not complain to management prior to involving DOL? If the employee did, what happened that the employee's complaint was not accurately assessed and resolved? And if the employee did not, do you have an idea of why?

I mean these as honest questions. The law is complicated, and it's easy to accidentally run afoul of some provision somewhere while acting in good faith. Outside of retribution, it's preferable to resolve these situations amicably. It's faster for the employee and less risky for the business. So when I hear these kinds of stories, I like to identify where the breakdown happened. Was it a bad hire? A broken reporting process? A failure of the lawyers to assess the claim?

Re: LinkedIn to pay nearly $6M in unpaid overtime wages and damages to 359 employees

#78

Post by superuser2 »

tieTYT wrote: post #56
hmahncke wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In California, computer professionals paid under ~$85k are required to be non-exempt (hourly) and should be paid overtime [1] [1]: http://www.shrm.org/templatestools/hrqa/pages/california-min...

It keeps using the word "employee". How does this apply to contractors and consultants? Do they negotiate their own terms? Are high earning ones expected to be exempt like employees?

Contractors are not subject to labor laws.

However, if it is discovered that a "contractor" is an employee everywhere but on paper, then the employer can still be liable for labor law violations. IIRC part of the test is "Can they choose their own hours? Do they use their own tools or are they provided/maintained by the employer? Does the employer dictate how they must do their work, or only specify deliverables?"

Re: LinkedIn to pay nearly $6M in unpaid overtime wages and damages to 359 employees

#79

Post by JoeAltmaier »

superuser2 wrote: post #78
tieTYT wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It keeps using the word "employee". How does this apply to contractors and consultants? Do they negotiate their own terms? Are high earning ones expected to be exempt like employees?

Contractors are not subject to labor laws. However, if it is discovered that a "contractor" is an employee everywhere but on paper, then the employer can still be liable for labor law violations. IIRC part of the test is "Can they choose their own hours? Do they use their own tools or are they provided/maintained by the employer? Does the employer dictate how they must do their work, or only specify deliverables?"

Also not subject to federal pay withholding (for taxes). So its important to get it right.

Re: LinkedIn to pay nearly $6M in unpaid overtime wages and damages to 359 employees

#80

Post by ics »

larrys wrote: post #41

I had this happen to me at a company that I owned in the past. I got the DOL to chop the total amount due in half and then got them to allow us to pay it out over 4 or 5 years. (All without a lawyer btw...) Edit: Reason for downvotes?

Everyone reading this thread would probably appreciate it if you provided more information. Your brevity almost sounds like gloating as it says nothing in regards to the well-being of your employees except that the money that you managed to owe them less than half of what the DOL originally figured.

In your other comment, you mentioned "some hidden rule"– what rule? How did you go about resolving it? I expect you could have some extra insight given that you did not involve a lawyer on your behalf. Size of the company, timeframe which this took place, etc. would all probably be helpful. We want to know what the less nefarious reasons you mentioned above actually are.

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