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The Mobile Web should just work for everyone

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Re: The Mobile Web should just work for everyone

#101

This is just another reason why all browsers (not just mobile) should be reporting their screen size. As in, the actual height/width. Not pixels. Pixels lie and so do browsers, actually. If I knew that the user's browser was 3 inches wide I could choose a point-based font size that's appropriate. It would also be trivially easy to scale font and image sizes up or down based on that knowledge. Especially if I'm using…

> As in, the actual height/width. Not pixels. What does the browser in an Oculus Rift report? What about the projector on my wall? Perhaps we're more interested in angular sizes, and then possibly pixel densities (again in terms of angular size) in case we need to worry about font legibility etc.

> Perhaps we're more interested in angular sizes

Which is how the reference pixel is defined:

> The reference pixel is the visual angle of one pixel on a device with a pixel density of 96dpi and a distance from the reader of an arm's length. For a nominal arm's length of 28 inches, the visual angle is therefore about 0.0213 degrees. For reading at arm's length, 1px thus corresponds to about 0.26 mm (1/96 inch).

Re: The Mobile Web should just work for everyone

#102
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. It feels philosophically unfair to complain about, but I want a Windows Phone emulator for OS X. Of course, Windows users don't get an emulator for iOS either, but Apple has popularity on their side.

Couldn't you technically run Windows 7/8 under VMWare and then run the Windows Phone tools under that? VMWare has nested virtualisation (at least on Workstation 10 on Windows, think its there on Fusion or the Paralles options). And given MS give free VMs for testing IE on Macs too, your a step closer...

Last time I tried, no. This is going from memory so I may be incorrect, but the WP emulator required some level of hardware virtualisation that VirtualBox (at least) could not offer in that nested way.

Re: The Mobile Web should just work for everyone

#103
post #93
post #73

I think the Windows Phone team deserve some credit for doing this, knowing that the developer reaction to it will be deeply negative (read: most comments in this thread). The simple fact is that it works better for Windows Phone users. If developers hadn't been using webkit-prefixed CSS everywhere it wouldn't be an issue, but it is. That said , I wish Windows Phone IE had better developer tools. Both Android and iOS…

You can do it on your desktop, http://oi58.tinypic.com/2rrnyxc.jpg

Which is certainly better than nothing, but not much fun when it comes to debugging touch gestures and the like.

Re: The Mobile Web should just work for everyone

#105

Edit: The previous title was "Windows Phone's IE starts masquerading as mobile Safari to render pages properly" Looks like the webkit prefix tags are creating the new IE6. As usual, it's the web developers fault for not updating their CSS prefixes. http://css.dzone.com/articles/why-webkit-new-ie6-trap-vendor Mozilla, Opera and Microsoft have been complaining about this and Opera had already implemented support for th…

I disagree that the webkit tags are creating the new IE 6, after all (IIRC) they're prefixed because the standards behind them aren't yet finished. On the one side I want to make a ramble about why it takes so long for those standards to finish and unprefixed CSS3 and beyond is possible, but on the other hand - without actual real-life use, how can you find all the edge-cases and practical application to create a com…

Many of these properties no longer require the prefix for most browsers. For these properties having the webkit prefix only, without the non-prefix property to cascade to, is a problem. I recall many demos, examples, and live sites not displaying as expected in Firefox because the developer decided to use only the webkit prefix. If the webkit team were to start removing the webkit prefixed properties then those sites would have even more broken views.

Re: The Mobile Web should just work for everyone

#106
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. It feels philosophically unfair to complain about, but I want a Windows Phone emulator for OS X. Of course, Windows users don't get an emulator for iOS either, but Apple has popularity on their side.

Couldn't you technically run Windows 7/8 under VMWare and then run the Windows Phone tools under that? VMWare has nested virtualisation (at least on Workstation 10 on Windows, think its there on Fusion or the Paralles options). And given MS give free VMs for testing IE on Macs too, your a step closer...

Parallels supports this nested virtualization. The WP 8.1 emulator requires HyperV which Parallels supports. I've managed to get this working on a Mac with a Parallels VM running Windows 8.1 running a Windows Phone 8.1 VM. It... worked, but needed lots of memory.

Re: The Mobile Web should just work for everyone

#107

Why doesn't Microsoft just adopt or fork WebKit? The world doesn't need Trident. The case for IE being mandatory in the OS died years ago, and the new direction Microsoft talks about taking embraces open source. A Microsoft backed browser that ran WebKit (or even Gecko) would give their team a much stronger platform to stand on when discussing standards. It would also close the door on one of Microsoft's biggest blac…

Because forks anyway.

http://blog.chromium.org/2013/04/blink-rendering-engine-for-...

Re: The Mobile Web should just work for everyone

#108
post #66

Poor Windows Phone team. This is a symptom of the ecosystem's indifference to the windows phone platform. Browser vendors implementing hacks to trick web apps into presenting the right content because web developers have learned that they can't rely on the browser to render content properly. I think there's a lesson in here about treating your ecosystem right.

they can't rely on the browser to render content properly. I actually don't think that's entirely fair to the Windows Phone team. Developers are being lazy and only testing on webkit devices.

I really feel bad for the windows phone team. I totally agree- it's not their fault.

IMO, it's the IE team who sewed this mess.

Re: The Mobile Web should just work for everyone

#109

Why doesn't Microsoft just adopt or fork WebKit? The world doesn't need Trident. The case for IE being mandatory in the OS died years ago, and the new direction Microsoft talks about taking embraces open source. A Microsoft backed browser that ran WebKit (or even Gecko) would give their team a much stronger platform to stand on when discussing standards. It would also close the door on one of Microsoft's biggest blac…

Because forks anyway. http://blog.chromium.org/2013/04/blink-rendering-engine-for-...

Hence why I said fork. Google still contributes heavily back to Chromium.

Re: The Mobile Web should just work for everyone

#110
post #92

Why doesn't Microsoft just adopt or fork WebKit? The world doesn't need Trident. The case for IE being mandatory in the OS died years ago, and the new direction Microsoft talks about taking embraces open source. A Microsoft backed browser that ran WebKit (or even Gecko) would give their team a much stronger platform to stand on when discussing standards. It would also close the door on one of Microsoft's biggest blac…

The world might not need Trident, but it does need multiple browser engines.

Sure. Maybe Gecko and WebKit are enough. At least then the foundations are all open and freely accessible to the world.
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