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Is Every Speed Limit Too Low?

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Re: Is Every Speed Limit Too Low?

#51

Post by chrishacken »

3pt14159 wrote: post #46

I studied Structural Engineering in University, which was under the Civil program, and, at least in Canada, we don't design for what people will go, but for how drivers can handle unexpected conditions, like cars turning out in front of them, a loss of traction due to ice, and visibility at night. I've also seen multiple studies that show that during high visibility / traction days (summer during the daytime) the spe…

Excellent example. I've noticed a few roads by me that are marked for 45mph that made me think, "woah, that speed limit is quite high for this road", but then I realized that it's actually on-par with the actual speed that people drive on that road (40-45). Then, there are other roads that are marked for 30mph that everyone drives 50mph on and you wonder wtf they were thinking when they set that limit.

Also, the State Police in my state, PA, typically won't pull you over on a highway marked 55mph unless you're doing over 80mph, so what does that tell you?

Re: Is Every Speed Limit Too Low?

#52

Post by chadgeidel »

cfstras wrote: post #44

Disclaimer: I am from Germany. The speeding system we have here seems to make a lot more sense to me: On most highways, there is no speed limit. The only (theoretical) limit is the motor limitation of 155 mph (250 km/h), which can be taken out, but will almost always lead to losing any kind of motor warranty. In practice, there are limiting signs to 75 mph (120 km/h) for passages where the road is not good enough or…

I'm sure you hear this all the time, but it's my understanding that US drivers are not nearly as well "trained" as German drivers. Anecdata, yes yes. It's trivially easy to acquire and maintain a driving permit here in the States, and it shows.

(US citizen here - I don't know about German drivers, but of course the skills of Germans are legendary. The automotive media tells us all German drivers are as skilled as Walter Röhrl. I'm only partially kidding.)

Re: Is Every Speed Limit Too Low?

#53

Post by pchristensen »

3pt14159 wrote: post #46

I studied Structural Engineering in University, which was under the Civil program, and, at least in Canada, we don't design for what people will go, but for how drivers can handle unexpected conditions, like cars turning out in front of them, a loss of traction due to ice, and visibility at night. I've also seen multiple studies that show that during high visibility / traction days (summer during the daytime) the spe…

When I lived in Lincoln Park, Chicago (a dense urban neighborhood), there were no speed limit signs. I think the speed limit was 25 mph, but between the narrow streets, parked cars, frequent intersections, and lots of pedestrians, I rarely felt comfortable going faster than 20. They could have had 100 mph stop signs all over the place and I still wouldn't have gone faster than 20.

Re: Is Every Speed Limit Too Low?

#54

Post by cylinder »

cfstras wrote: post #44

Disclaimer: I am from Germany. The speeding system we have here seems to make a lot more sense to me: On most highways, there is no speed limit. The only (theoretical) limit is the motor limitation of 155 mph (250 km/h), which can be taken out, but will almost always lead to losing any kind of motor warranty. In practice, there are limiting signs to 75 mph (120 km/h) for passages where the road is not good enough or…

Yes, the main point is that I pay more attention when driving faster on a freeway. One need only take a road trip in Australia to see how ridiculous low speed limits on open roads are. 110 kmh limit with, yes, very strong enforcement in place, in a completely rural area with few cars around, no people, no pedestrians, on a long drive (it's ten hours from Melbourne to Sydney with basically nothing in between).

Result -- zone out on cruise control, look at your phone, talk to others in the car, etc. Focus on the road? Nope.

Re: Is Every Speed Limit Too Low?

#55

Post by goodcanadian »

cfstras wrote: post #44

Disclaimer: I am from Germany. The speeding system we have here seems to make a lot more sense to me: On most highways, there is no speed limit. The only (theoretical) limit is the motor limitation of 155 mph (250 km/h), which can be taken out, but will almost always lead to losing any kind of motor warranty. In practice, there are limiting signs to 75 mph (120 km/h) for passages where the road is not good enough or…

On a perhaps related note, a road I used to drive regularly had many curves and signs warning you to slow down at each one. Only one of the curves actually required you to slow down to navigate it safely. Guess which corner was where all of the accidents happened? If you "cry wolf" too often, people will ignore the speed limit (or caution signs or whatever). If, however, the speed limit is usually appropriate, people will take note when it changes, and drive appropriately.

Re: Is Every Speed Limit Too Low?

#56

Post by cfstras »

Cakez0r wrote: post #50
cfstras wrote: post #44

Disclaimer: I am from Germany. The speeding system we have here seems to make a lot more sense to me: On most highways, there is no speed limit. The only (theoretical) limit is the motor limitation of 155 mph (250 km/h), which can be taken out, but will almost always lead to losing any kind of motor warranty. In practice, there are limiting signs to 75 mph (120 km/h) for passages where the road is not good enough or…

I think it would work to just make the inside lane unrestricted and only have speed limits on the outer lanes. That way, slow and fast drivers aren't endangering each other because they're in completely separate streams of traffic.

Except that could encourage people to stay out of the right lanes -- leading to confusion or wasted lanes when trying to pass people, which happens all the time. If you closely watch a german highway, there are 2 to 3 lanes (per direction) for the most part, and the speeds are quite consistent: The rightmost lane is full of trucks going 60 mph (90-100 km/h), while the middle lane is going around 80 mph (130 km/h), which is the advised speed, or Richtgeschwindigkeit. The leftmost lane is left exclusively for passing slower cars and those going 100+ mph (160+ km/h).

Re: Is Every Speed Limit Too Low?

#57

Post by clairity »

peatmoss wrote: post #15

This article ignores a lot of peer-reviewed literature from planning, public health / injury prevention, and civil engineering in favor of some folksy wisdom of a lieutenant cop. A good starting mental model is that vehicle speeds increase both the frequency and severity of crashes. The article weakly, and quietly made an argument that I do agree with. Namely, roadway design needs to accompany speed limits to ensure…

speed definitely increases the severity of crashes, but i'm not convinced that it increases frequency. even so, the #1 factor leading to increased frequency of crashes is distracted driving (sorry, don't have time to look up relevant links). if it exists, the correlation of accidents with speed is likely much weaker than with distractedness.

if we really wanted to reduce motoring accidents, rather than regulating speed, we'd regulate away everything you can do in a car other than drive (radio, food, shaving, makeup, newspapers, etc.). i'd even suggest that driving fast might cause you to be less distracted because of the higher severity of a crash (would be an interesting research topic).

Re: Is Every Speed Limit Too Low?

#58

Post by bluecalm »

mcdougle wrote: post #8
_archon_ wrote: post #4

I found myself disagreeing with the premise that highway speed limits don't influence people's driving speed. I may simply be part of the 15%, but consider the following anecdata: On I-90 in upstate NY, the "speed limit" is 65. I've gone by several state troopers at 70-75 without issue or confrontation. I don't go faster, not because traffic dictates, but I'm concerned about litigious policemen. To put it in Freakono…

You do raise a good point. I know that, when I started driving, my dad taught me a neat trick: drive 8.5 mph over the speed limit, and you'll never get pulled over. That's (supposedly) because a ticket for anything less than 10mph is simply not worth it for the cops. If you go any more than 8.5mph over, though, you might accidentally cross that 10mph mark, and if a cop's around he'll get you. And, sure enough, any ti…

Most (all?) cars have speedometers which already overstate speed of a vehicle. This is I believe because of laws which forbid speedometer to overstate shown speed (by some margin) but not understate it so if you are driving 8.5mph above the limit it's probably actually even less than that.

Re: Is Every Speed Limit Too Low?

#59

Post by lutorm »

If there's a state that should win the price for speed limits that make no sense, it must be Hawaii. We have stretches of straight, extremely wide highways with no intersections and a speed limit of 40mph. Then you come to an old, narrow, and curvy road and it's 55mph. Or it could be 35mph. It's like the speed limit is set by a random number generator.

Re: Is Every Speed Limit Too Low?

#60

Post by pinaceae »

chadgeidel wrote: post #52
cfstras wrote: post #44

Disclaimer: I am from Germany. The speeding system we have here seems to make a lot more sense to me: On most highways, there is no speed limit. The only (theoretical) limit is the motor limitation of 155 mph (250 km/h), which can be taken out, but will almost always lead to losing any kind of motor warranty. In practice, there are limiting signs to 75 mph (120 km/h) for passages where the road is not good enough or…

I'm sure you hear this all the time, but it's my understanding that US drivers are not nearly as well "trained" as German drivers. Anecdata, yes yes. It's trivially easy to acquire and maintain a driving permit here in the States, and it shows. (US citizen here - I don't know about German drivers, but of course the skills of Germans are legendary. The automotive media tells us all German drivers are as skilled as Wal…

they're not that much better, you still have seniors, old ladies in a hat, etc. driving.

the initial steps to obtain a driver's license are much harder than in the US, that's correct.

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