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Affordable Housing Draws Middle Class to Inland Cities

nytimes.com

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Re: Affordable Housing Draws Middle Class to Inland Cities

#21

Post by VLM »

fludlight wrote: post #9
jgunaratne wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of the best jobs in areas such as technology, design and finance are on the coasts. No doubt that costs are lower in the middle of the country, but pay is also substantially lower. I wonder why more top companies don't try to take advantage of the cost savings of setting up in middle America vs. outsourcing jobs abroad?

Eventually you will run out of available, qualified local talent and you will need to hire someone from a coastal tech hub. Only most Californians/New Yorkers don't want to move to Salt Lake City, or Oklahoma, or Houston, or anywhere else in the middle. The flag is the same but the culture is drastically different.

I can assure you given vast experience that there's a severe underemployment problem in tech everywhere other than NYC SFO SV. Lack of talent is just not a serious issue.

The group think is there is "a" culture or political outlook for each area. The reality is its more multicultural and the difference is in the ratios. For example the LGBT community in Milwaukee is healthy, according to my friends in it, but its much smaller than SFO. If you just want to live the suburban kid raising life there's a lot more of them here, than in Manhattan, but that doesn't mean there's no flannel wearing hipsters at all LOL.

Re: Affordable Housing Draws Middle Class to Inland Cities

#22

Post by mcdougle »

chiph wrote: post #13
thetrumanshow wrote: post #6

Man, I feel like I'm going to be really negative, I hope not, but here goes: OKC is undergoing an oil boom, the secondary effects of which are being reported in this article (IMO). My advice: come live in Oklahoma or Kansas if you actually like it here and want to be here for a long time, because when the boom dies, you'll find it harder to leave. Opportunities abound on the coasts. Texas, well, Texas is always a gre…

Even in Texas, you have to be careful when the boom ends. I was in Midland/Odessa about 10-12 years ago (before the current oil boom) and it was a tough place to live - lots of closed businesses. The drilling firms had stacks of pipe in their yards, instead of out in the oil fields being put to use. The folks who lived there were really down on their city, something you don't see all that often in Texas (how do you k…

> how do you know someone's a Texan? Don't worry, they'll tell you

I never noticed this before, but I'm a Texan, and I do this.

Re: Affordable Housing Draws Middle Class to Inland Cities

#23

Post by dabent »

thetrumanshow wrote: post #6

Man, I feel like I'm going to be really negative, I hope not, but here goes: OKC is undergoing an oil boom, the secondary effects of which are being reported in this article (IMO). My advice: come live in Oklahoma or Kansas if you actually like it here and want to be here for a long time, because when the boom dies, you'll find it harder to leave. Opportunities abound on the coasts. Texas, well, Texas is always a gre…

I live in Atlanta, and notice that it has many of the advantages of an inland city without being as tied to a boom/bust cycle that oil cities can have. Surely there are other US cities that have a lower cost of living that isn't tied to a single industry. I'd love to hear what experience others have.

Re: Affordable Housing Draws Middle Class to Inland Cities

#24

Post by jzimdars »

thetrumanshow wrote: post #6

Man, I feel like I'm going to be really negative, I hope not, but here goes: OKC is undergoing an oil boom, the secondary effects of which are being reported in this article (IMO). My advice: come live in Oklahoma or Kansas if you actually like it here and want to be here for a long time, because when the boom dies, you'll find it harder to leave. Opportunities abound on the coasts. Texas, well, Texas is always a gre…

There is more to it than than just oil. OKC didn't go nuts like much of the country did during the real estate boom and likewise we didn't get our asses handed to us when the market dropped. We saw moderate gains followed by moderate loss. That's a big reason why OKC has maintained one of the lowest unemployment rates in the country throughout this financial crisis.

IMO this is a reflection of a culture that's a little more traditional and a lot more conservative than the rest of the country (and I don't mean crazy-right-wing-extreme-conservatism, though we have that here, too). People live, work and start businesses in OKC because they want to be here — not because they want access to VC/talent/incentives/loopholes.

I've lived in OKC for 20 years and we've stayed because it's a great place to live. My kids aren't passing through metal detectors at school, I can drive anywhere in the city in 20 minutes, the other guy always lets you go first at a 4-way stop, and when I say "hi" to a total stranger on the street they smile and reply in kind.

Re: Affordable Housing Draws Middle Class to Inland Cities

#25

Post by michaelochurch »

autism_hurts wrote: post #2

A little reminder that we sometimes forget in the San Francisco Bay Area -- there are plenty of other, really wonderful places to live. People here will rattle off weather, jobs, activities (outdoors) -- but the reality of the situation is that there are plenty of incredible places to live in the US, where you can make within 10%-20% of your Bay Area wage with 30%-40% or more less housing costs. Even a place like LA…

Even a place like LA or San Diego, Seattle, Portland, Austin, Chicago, etc -- you won't believe the homes, apartments, lofts, flats, condos you can get. Absolutely stunning places, with great activities and schooling.

Agree. What prevents people from moving to those places is the scarcity of jobs out there. There are good jobs in the Midwest, but not enough per unit area to generate the competition (except, perhaps, in Chicago for finance professionals) that you need, as a worker, to get a fair shake.

Despite the perception on Hacker News that small businesses are the way forward, the data actually support conglomeration and a death of entrepreneurship. See here: http://www.brookings.edu/research/papers/2014/07/aging-ameri... . Also here: http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-slow-death-of-americ... .

Venture capital is a feudal, connections-based oligarchy that no one should rely on, while bank loans now require personal liability and are therefore a non-starter for anything that might actually fail. Then, there's the general depletion of capital in the middle classes due to the collapse of unions, healthcare malfeasance, and the escalating costs of housing and tuition. So where are the new companies forming? The only place (or few) where they still can.

The Bay Area isn't some utopia at the vanguard. San Francisco is OK; the Valley is properly horrible. It's, for many people, the only option left in non-financial technology. It's the place least destroyed by the meltdown of corporate capitalism in the US.

Re: Affordable Housing Draws Middle Class to Inland Cities

#26

Post by Balgair »

autism_hurts wrote: post #2

A little reminder that we sometimes forget in the San Francisco Bay Area -- there are plenty of other, really wonderful places to live. People here will rattle off weather, jobs, activities (outdoors) -- but the reality of the situation is that there are plenty of incredible places to live in the US, where you can make within 10%-20% of your Bay Area wage with 30%-40% or more less housing costs. Even a place like LA…

Not just in the US, either. I just spent 3 weeks in Europe, and man, there are some very affordable and nice places to live there. If you have the 'passive' income, consider the Italian Lake district.

That said, we are leaving LA for Denver. West LA is 'gentrifying' pretty bad right now. We spec'd housing prices in Denver, and a 3 story house's mortgage can come in under our rent in LA. Yeah, there is give and take there, but the diff between LA and Denver housing is amazing. Denver, yes, does not have oceans, but otherwise is very similar to the Bay culturally.

Also, don't forget the reason that prices for homes in California are so distorted: Prop 13. The legislature needs to amend it. The longer we wait, the worse it gets.

Re: Affordable Housing Draws Middle Class to Inland Cities

#27

Post by thrownaway2424 »

thetrumanshow wrote: post #6

Man, I feel like I'm going to be really negative, I hope not, but here goes: OKC is undergoing an oil boom, the secondary effects of which are being reported in this article (IMO). My advice: come live in Oklahoma or Kansas if you actually like it here and want to be here for a long time, because when the boom dies, you'll find it harder to leave. Opportunities abound on the coasts. Texas, well, Texas is always a gre…

Being from OKC and with plenty of family still left that I still visit frequently, I can say I heartily endorse moving there if, and only if, you:

1) Can tolerate daily encounters with racist and homophobic statements and words like nigger and faggot being thrown around by ~everybody. 2) Think it's funny when the local paper actually uses the word "Osamacare" in print. 3) Enjoy minor earthquakes.

Re: Affordable Housing Draws Middle Class to Inland Cities

#28

Post by vlucas »

This is awesome news for me. I currently live in the Oklahoma City area, and have for the past 11 years after moving here from the Bay Area, and am heavily invested in the local tech community (I founded http://okcjs.com and organize http://thunderplainsconf.com among other things). The tech community here is better than it has EVER been and awesome things are happening here, but of course it's all relative - it's still a small community if you're coming from the coasts.

While I can say with absolute certainty that the weather is not nearly as nice (nor the scenery as beautiful) here in OKC as it was in the Bay Area, the people here are awesome, and the opportunities abound. It's hard to put into words the forward momentum that exists here, but everyone here in the local community feels it.

Regarding salary, you may make slightly less here - depending on the job you take - but your living costs are going to be so low, you will end up having a much better, less stressful life. To give you an idea, I work remotely (telecommute) on a very well paying full-time contract, and my mortgage on a 3bd/1.5ba. 1100 sq.ft. house is $640/mth with insurance and taxes included - far below even 10% of what I make. I could easily buy a much larger brand new house, but choose not to for now in order to maximize my savings. I have more freedom in this situation than I would making even 50% more on the coasts.

Also, while I am sure there are other low-cost places to live in the U.S., I don't feel like there are many other places positioned like OKC is right now. The people of Oklahoma City have made significant public investments in the area that have attracted significantly MORE private investment. The [MAPS Projects](http://www.okc.gov/maps/) - and the [MAPS3 Project](http://www.okc.gov/maps3/) that is currently underway have completely transformed downtown OKC and are having ripple effects all throughout the greater metro area. These public projects have paid off for OKC in spades, and will continue to pay dividends for decades to come.

In the relatively short time I have lived in the OKC area, I have seen a complete turn-around and transformation of an entire metro area unlike any other I have ever seen or heard of in my life. It makes me excited for the future, and glad that I am playing a part in it, however small.

Re: Affordable Housing Draws Middle Class to Inland Cities

#29

Post by danielweber »

fludlight wrote: post #9
jgunaratne wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of the best jobs in areas such as technology, design and finance are on the coasts. No doubt that costs are lower in the middle of the country, but pay is also substantially lower. I wonder why more top companies don't try to take advantage of the cost savings of setting up in middle America vs. outsourcing jobs abroad?

Eventually you will run out of available, qualified local talent and you will need to hire someone from a coastal tech hub. Only most Californians/New Yorkers don't want to move to Salt Lake City, or Oklahoma, or Houston, or anywhere else in the middle. The flag is the same but the culture is drastically different.

This seems to say that there is a "California/New York" culture, and on "everything else" culture.

To be fair, I used to think that way before I moved out of the Boston area into one of those "everything else" cities.

Re: Affordable Housing Draws Middle Class to Inland Cities

#30

Post by eastbayjake »

After living in the Bay Area for a year, I find myself frequently opening my laptop for "real estate porn": going to Realtor.com and looking at listings in the cities mentioned in this article, just sitting there and oogling the home prices outside of California. For the price of a crappy 1BR condo in SF you can buy a 6BR Tudor mansion in Detroit: http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/1002-Semino...
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