Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Affordable Housing Draws Middle Class to Inland Cities

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 115 posts

Re: Affordable Housing Draws Middle Class to Inland Cities

#11

Post by _upvotes_ »

ojbyrne wrote: post #4
jgunaratne wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of the best jobs in areas such as technology, design and finance are on the coasts. No doubt that costs are lower in the middle of the country, but pay is also substantially lower. I wonder why more top companies don't try to take advantage of the cost savings of setting up in middle America vs. outsourcing jobs abroad?

There's lots of "near sourcing" too - outsourcing jobs to companies in parts of the country with lower cost of living.

Austin is big on that.

Re: Affordable Housing Draws Middle Class to Inland Cities

#12

Post by nthj »

jgunaratne wrote: post #3
autism_hurts wrote: post #2

A little reminder that we sometimes forget in the San Francisco Bay Area -- there are plenty of other, really wonderful places to live. People here will rattle off weather, jobs, activities (outdoors) -- but the reality of the situation is that there are plenty of incredible places to live in the US, where you can make within 10%-20% of your Bay Area wage with 30%-40% or more less housing costs. Even a place like LA…

Many of the best jobs in areas such as technology, design and finance are on the coasts. No doubt that costs are lower in the middle of the country, but pay is also substantially lower. I wonder why more top companies don't try to take advantage of the cost savings of setting up in middle America vs. outsourcing jobs abroad?

I know Google, Facebook, Apple, and others have been visibly increasing their presence in Austin. Apple was putting up offices across the street from my old apartment complex, and the scuttlebutt was they were adding 4,000-some-odd-employees here over the next few years.

Re: Affordable Housing Draws Middle Class to Inland Cities

#13

Post by chiph »

thetrumanshow wrote: post #6

Man, I feel like I'm going to be really negative, I hope not, but here goes: OKC is undergoing an oil boom, the secondary effects of which are being reported in this article (IMO). My advice: come live in Oklahoma or Kansas if you actually like it here and want to be here for a long time, because when the boom dies, you'll find it harder to leave. Opportunities abound on the coasts. Texas, well, Texas is always a gre…

Even in Texas, you have to be careful when the boom ends. I was in Midland/Odessa about 10-12 years ago (before the current oil boom) and it was a tough place to live - lots of closed businesses. The drilling firms had stacks of pipe in their yards, instead of out in the oil fields being put to use.

The folks who lived there were really down on their city, something you don't see all that often in Texas (how do you know someone's a Texan? Don't worry, they'll tell you). That was hard to deal with in conversation with them - they still had lots of advantages, but they wouldn't see them.

Re: Affordable Housing Draws Middle Class to Inland Cities

#14

Post by micro_cam »

Any one have an interactive heatmap of the same data on a county or census block level? That visualization makes it hard to explore finer grained trends.

Googeling around for one I found this article which picks out the inland west as the fastest growing region in the nation: http://www.forbes.com/sites/joelkotkin/2013/09/04/a-map-of-a...

But one of the job hubs they mention, Boise, didn't make the NY times vis.

My own experience is that, when considering cost of living and quality of life, it is hard to beat the northern rockies.

Re: Affordable Housing Draws Middle Class to Inland Cities

#15

Post by bjt »

fludlight wrote: post #9
jgunaratne wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of the best jobs in areas such as technology, design and finance are on the coasts. No doubt that costs are lower in the middle of the country, but pay is also substantially lower. I wonder why more top companies don't try to take advantage of the cost savings of setting up in middle America vs. outsourcing jobs abroad?

Eventually you will run out of available, qualified local talent and you will need to hire someone from a coastal tech hub. Only most Californians/New Yorkers don't want to move to Salt Lake City, or Oklahoma, or Houston, or anywhere else in the middle. The flag is the same but the culture is drastically different.

Doesn't this work just as well in reverse?

> Eventually you will run out of available, qualified coastal talent and you will need to hire someone from a non-coastal area.

I live in the bay area, but am from Utah originally. A couple examples from my home state:

http://www.adobe.com/careers/locations.html#lehi

http://blog.ebay.com/ebay-expands-in-utah-with-the-opening-o...

Re: Affordable Housing Draws Middle Class to Inland Cities

#16

Post by rayiner »

autism_hurts wrote: post #2

A little reminder that we sometimes forget in the San Francisco Bay Area -- there are plenty of other, really wonderful places to live. People here will rattle off weather, jobs, activities (outdoors) -- but the reality of the situation is that there are plenty of incredible places to live in the US, where you can make within 10%-20% of your Bay Area wage with 30%-40% or more less housing costs. Even a place like LA…

The wonderful thing about these other cities is that for the same price, you can live in the city for what it'd cost you to live in a far-flung suburb of San Francisco or D.C. The 1,200 square foot house where I grew up, in the D.C. suburbs, is almost $600k now. Why should I spend that money to be in an area that might as well be Oklahoma, when that'll buy me a bigger condo in Chicago with a lake view?

Re: Affordable Housing Draws Middle Class to Inland Cities

#17

Post by Domenic_S »

bjt wrote: post #15
fludlight wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eventually you will run out of available, qualified local talent and you will need to hire someone from a coastal tech hub. Only most Californians/New Yorkers don't want to move to Salt Lake City, or Oklahoma, or Houston, or anywhere else in the middle. The flag is the same but the culture is drastically different.

Doesn't this work just as well in reverse? > Eventually you will run out of available, qualified coastal talent and you will need to hire someone from a non-coastal area. I live in the bay area, but am from Utah originally. A couple examples from my home state: http://www.adobe.com/careers/locations.html#lehi http://blog.ebay.com/ebay-expands-in-utah-with-the-opening-o...

> Doesn't this work just as well in reverse?

.

> I live in the bay area, but am from Utah originally

You just answered your own question.

Re: Affordable Housing Draws Middle Class to Inland Cities

#18

Post by lotharbot »

jgunaratne wrote: post #3
autism_hurts wrote: post #2

A little reminder that we sometimes forget in the San Francisco Bay Area -- there are plenty of other, really wonderful places to live. People here will rattle off weather, jobs, activities (outdoors) -- but the reality of the situation is that there are plenty of incredible places to live in the US, where you can make within 10%-20% of your Bay Area wage with 30%-40% or more less housing costs. Even a place like LA…

Many of the best jobs in areas such as technology, design and finance are on the coasts. No doubt that costs are lower in the middle of the country, but pay is also substantially lower. I wonder why more top companies don't try to take advantage of the cost savings of setting up in middle America vs. outsourcing jobs abroad?

I don't think pay is as much lower as you think it is.

I keep in touch with a lot of people in tech from all around the country. Those in flyover country (Denver, OKC, Austin) make less money than those in comparable positions on the coast, but it might be 10% less. Meanwhile their housing costs are typically less than half.

For comparison purposes:

For the same price as this 800 square foot 1 bedroom condo in SF http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/452-Fell-St...

... you can get the most expensive home in my entire zip code. 2800 square feet, on a private lake: http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/4845-W-Warr...

The net result is that, on a developer salary in a place like Denver, KC, or Salt Lake, you can afford the same luxuries as on a developer salary in SF, and quite possibly more.

Re: Affordable Housing Draws Middle Class to Inland Cities

#19

Post by [deleted] »

lotharbot wrote: post #18
jgunaratne wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of the best jobs in areas such as technology, design and finance are on the coasts. No doubt that costs are lower in the middle of the country, but pay is also substantially lower. I wonder why more top companies don't try to take advantage of the cost savings of setting up in middle America vs. outsourcing jobs abroad?

I don't think pay is as much lower as you think it is. I keep in touch with a lot of people in tech from all around the country. Those in flyover country (Denver, OKC, Austin) make less money than those in comparable positions on the coast, but it might be 10% less. Meanwhile their housing costs are typically less than half. For comparison purposes: For the same price as this 800 square foot 1 bedroom condo in SF htt…

[deleted]

Re: Affordable Housing Draws Middle Class to Inland Cities

#20

Post by pessimizer »

fludlight wrote: post #9
jgunaratne wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of the best jobs in areas such as technology, design and finance are on the coasts. No doubt that costs are lower in the middle of the country, but pay is also substantially lower. I wonder why more top companies don't try to take advantage of the cost savings of setting up in middle America vs. outsourcing jobs abroad?

Eventually you will run out of available, qualified local talent and you will need to hire someone from a coastal tech hub. Only most Californians/New Yorkers don't want to move to Salt Lake City, or Oklahoma, or Houston, or anywhere else in the middle. The flag is the same but the culture is drastically different.

You will never be so short of people that you will have to hire someone from SF or NY. Those places don't have an excess of programmers, they have a deficit, and it's one that is continually resupplied from middle America and overseas.
Post reply on HN