Live data from Hacker News

Design culture is a frozen shithole

blog.colepeters.com

21–30 of 47 posts

Re: Design culture is a frozen shithole

#21
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, but I think what he's trying to get at is that designers were more politically engaged on the whole, especially during Modernism. However, it also had its downsides, the major being design hubris (e.g. over-planned cities, complete top-down organizational thinking, treating all people interchangeably, etc).

Right, and that is almost exactly survivor bias. It isn't that they were more engaged as a whole. The ones that we talk about were.

Ehhh, yeah, sort of.

There were far less people who could call themselves designers at the time. It was a slower craft and took more training.

It's like in music. Yeah, there were other bands other than the Beatles and Rolling Stones, but it was harder to produce and distribute music back then. Thus, the industry was more monolithic than it is now. The ones we talk about now are more representative of the state of the industry back then than Lady Gaga (or whatever) is of now.

Re: Design culture is a frozen shithole

#22

I've had similar frustrations, but I've started to understand it as a matter of visibility bias. There are lots of people out there, doing the good work, doing it well, for the right reasons, in the right ways, without buzzwordy bullshit. But you don't hear about them because... they're working. They aren't promoting themselves. They're just working. It's the asshats who don't know what they are doing, don't have the…

I'd love to know more companies that are doing good work, can you (or anyone else) list some startups/employers that are working on "real" problems, but may not be well known?

Re: Design culture is a frozen shithole

#23

This is uncomfortably scathing. And true. The part about the Icebergs acquisition is particularly depressing. We are losing the trust of consumers by constantly shutting down products. It's one thing if those products are failures, but these acquisitions demonstrate they are useful, successful products (perhaps just with a small to medium-sized potential market). People always talk about this and that policy stifling…

> It's one thing if those products are failures, but these acquisitions demonstrate they are useful, successful products (perhaps just with a small to medium-sized potential market) Do they really, though? There's no shortage of acquisitions that are driven by motivations other than "these people built something useful." Such as: "We want to hire these people whose startup is a clear failure, but they won't bite unle…

You're very right! I was generalizing.

I've just seen too products I use get shut down because they refuse to create sustainable businesses.

Re: Design culture is a frozen shithole

#24
post #22

I've had similar frustrations, but I've started to understand it as a matter of visibility bias. There are lots of people out there, doing the good work, doing it well, for the right reasons, in the right ways, without buzzwordy bullshit. But you don't hear about them because... they're working. They aren't promoting themselves. They're just working. It's the asshats who don't know what they are doing, don't have the…

I'd love to know more companies that are doing good work, can you (or anyone else) list some startups/employers that are working on "real" problems, but may not be well known?

Personally, I'm a freelancer.

Don't ignore the public sector. Not everything is as bad as working for Raytheon on war industry projects, or working for Health and Human Services on disease industry projects. My experience has been: the more local, the better. There are some municipal IT departments that are trying to do good work and support open standards at the same time, in a realistic environment. I think it's a burgeoning area where more young people could turn their attention.

There are a lot of small manufacturers across the country (don't believe what you've heard, it's only gigantocorp manufacturing that is dead in America, and that's more because gigantocorps are on the way out than anything to do with manufacturing) that have very good, results-based attitudes to work. My current client is one such place. They essentially give me free reign over their project.

But ultimately, I think a person can do good work in any environment. Though you probably want to stay out of the boiler-rooms of anything that is closely ran by someone with an MBA. When you hear them start to talk about "our employees are our greatest asset", then you know they doth protest too much. Why would you want to be considered an "asset" anyway, which is by definition owned property? Stick to places that are pragmatic, open, and honest.

Re: Design culture is a frozen shithole

#25
post #7

This would be a lot more convincing if it explained exactly what is wrong with the designs he dismisses and even more so if it offered a few examples of the kind of design he'd like to see instead.

I was waiting for when he was going to put in some clear examples about what he was talking about. It's easy to say, "This sucks, we need to do better!" when you don't really lay out specific examples.

Re: Design culture is a frozen shithole

#26

As someone with a formal design education and a uhh "technologist", I think this argument is pure crap. You're looking at "designers" in tech and making a very valid critique of the industry at large, but these designers have very little to do with it. Yes, they're pumping out derivative cloying work like every start up does because that's what they get paid to do. I think you might need to step out of the tech bubbl…

I agree, I simply replaced "design" with "interface design" and everything makes sense.

Replace "design" with "startups".

He is describing the culture of creating business's whose real purpose is to attract VC funding with the goal of finding an 'exit'.

Re: Design culture is a frozen shithole

#27
post #22

I've had similar frustrations, but I've started to understand it as a matter of visibility bias. There are lots of people out there, doing the good work, doing it well, for the right reasons, in the right ways, without buzzwordy bullshit. But you don't hear about them because... they're working. They aren't promoting themselves. They're just working. It's the asshats who don't know what they are doing, don't have the…

I'd love to know more companies that are doing good work, can you (or anyone else) list some startups/employers that are working on "real" problems, but may not be well known?

Anyone in your office put together a spreadsheet? Then they are a designer. Anyone else send out a mail shot to some customer base? Then they are a designer. Design is not sexy. It is interesting, but it's not sexy.

Re: Design culture is a frozen shithole

#28
"We follow the same worn-out, well-trodden, clichéd paths of those who came before us, over and over again, claiming to be the next best thing, when in reality we’re just the latest in a series of cookie-cutter gimmicks and frauds hoping to be validated by soulless marketplaces and rich white geriatrics like those bright-eyed, pimple-pocked stars that came before us."

Besides being a horrible, run on sentence, this is exactly how web design works.

People build the same thing over and over because that's what people BUY. If nobody bought any Toyota Camry's, then we wouldn't have millions of cars that all look the same and do the same thing. It's the same thing with web design. The people are who doing the really cool cutting edge design work are outliers - not the stuff you see a lot of in the mainstream sites who get the awards and visibility.

It's like Henry Rollins said about punk rock being dead. Actually punk is very much alive and kicking, but you won't see it on MTV, or on the music charts, or on the radio. You have to really dig to find real punk rock anymore. You can't go to the local "hipster" bar to see the local band imitating Green Day's pop-punk sound. No, you have to go to Chicago, in some dungy, hole-in-the-wall bar, and sit in the mosh pit with skinheads who haven't showered for a week, and the band comes on and belts out an hour of angry, non-conformist anthems and just oozes with anger and disenchantment. He said a lot better than I did, but you get the idea.

So yeah, good design isn't dead, you just have to did a little to find the good stuff.

Re: Design culture is a frozen shithole

#29
I am tired of seeing these takedowns of the same things with no broader structural critique. It has become a piece of groupthink now to decry the flowery language in acquisition announcements, flat design, whimsical/pointless products, greed, etc. But no examination of why things are this way, or what might change them. Disappointing.

Re: Design culture is a frozen shithole

#30

I am tired of seeing these takedowns of the same things with no broader structural critique. It has become a piece of groupthink now to decry the flowery language in acquisition announcements, flat design, whimsical/pointless products, greed, etc. But no examination of why things are this way, or what might change them. Disappointing.

Do you have thoughts as to why things are this way? I'd genuinely love to discuss them (and it sounds like you would too).
Post reply on HN