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Hotel fines $500 for every bad review posted online

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Re: Hotel fines $500 for every bad review posted online

#101

Post by personZ »

hawkharris wrote: post #57
personZ wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our immediate response should be to post negative reviews "Activism" reviews are what make most online reviews useless. Please don't do that. And those who already have today do nothing but undermine their own reputation. While the ridiculous penalty claim is outrageous and likely illegal, and their behavior on Yelp is unacceptable, everyone should always take a moment to understand where they're coming from[1]: In t…

Please take a look at my response to danielweber. I'm not advocating that people post fake reviews. I'm saying that we should point out only what we know: some of the other reviews may be disingenuous because of the $500 fine. This is a public policy posted on their website. It's a simple matter of fact, not opinions.

You specifically called for people to post negative reviews. How can someone review something they've never experienced?

Regarding the other reviews being disingenuous or skewed, note that this policy only apparently applies and has ever even been stated for wedding parties. Are wedding parties big users of Yelp? Is it a credible use case for a general hotel?

Imagine that you're a sushi place and everyone loves your fishy goodness. But then you are called to be the primary caterer of a conference center event, leading to dozens of terrible reviews by people who don't like fish. Should their "I don't like fish" reviews be placed side by side with people looking for a sushi place to eat? Is that useful for users of yelp? As a sushi eater, no, that would be terrible noise.

The solution is of course to simply stop serving a niche food at the conference center, just as this hotel should stop doing weddings.

Re: Hotel fines $500 for every bad review posted online

#102

Post by kmfrk »

smackfu wrote: post #80

This seems like it would violate Yelp's rules. If you fine people for bad reviews, is that any different than paying people for good reviews?

It's illegal to sue people for bad reviews (SLAPP); I think it's just against Yelp TOU to pay people for good ones.

Re: Hotel fines $500 for every bad review posted online

#104

Post by danielweber »

sekasi wrote: post #50

Can someone living in the US tell me how this could be legal? Surely it's not?

It's well established that you can be held to a contract to not say something. There still needs to be the standard requirements of a contract: mutual understanding, consideration, legality.

This contract holds you responsible for others' behavior, which is less well established.

Re: Hotel fines $500 for every bad review posted online

#105

Post by witty_username »

dm2 wrote: post #16

What a horrible policy, it won't end well for them. http://www.yelp.com/biz/union-street-guest-house-hudson?sort... 10 negative Yelp reviews have been posted today (so far), ouch... http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Review-g47931-d490934-Revie... Their website navigation is a very discrete image map in the middle of the page, http://www.unionstreetguesthouse.com/ obviously this was someone's first website. It's probab…

It has to be unenforceable in court because how would you know the guest actually posted the comment and not someone else masquerading.

Re: Hotel fines $500 for every bad review posted online

#106

Post by JackC »

jebus989 wrote: post #24
rrrx3 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I should be stating the obvious here, but the fact that I even have to post this means that obviously, I am not. Just because something is written into the terms of an agreement doesn't make it legal.

Yeah, you are not. Say someone writes a contract saying that they can slap me in the face and each time they do I must pay $100, if I carefully read and then sign that contract, and they then slap me three times — have I been assaulted or do I owe $300, or both?

This is actually a tricky question. Your assault & battery law probably says something like "unconsented or violent touching," so the fact that you consented doesn't matter, so you've been assaulted. And you can't enter a contract to perform an illegal act, so you don't owe $300 -- it's not a good contract.[1]

But it depends why you're being slapped! Obviously we can't go prosecuting everyone who intentionally whacks into someone else according to the rules of whatever sport they're playing, so we make an exception for that. This gets tricky with sports like boxing where the rules require you to do something that looks pretty much like a brutal assault, so the exceptions in that case get pretty finicky -- we might insist that you make your mutual-battery deals in public, in licensed boxing rings, instead of by giving Brad Pitt a nice manly handshake in the basement of a bar and refusing to talk about it later.

And then there's the whole gray area of less socially-accepted sports, like Quidditch or BDSM. We (even prosecutors) often approach things from the perspective of, "if this activity seems normal to me, it must be legal; if it seems wrong it must be illegal." When moral judgments and fear of the unknown creep into that analysis, it can lead to some twisted logic to justify the outcome we know must be right.

[1] Now consider whether you can be prosecuted for A&B as an accomplice.

Re: Hotel fines $500 for every bad review posted online

#107

Post by specialp »

eli wrote: post #79
zorrb wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Please know that despite the fact that wedding couples love Hudson and our Inn, your friends and families may not. This is due to the fact that your guests may not understand what we offer - therefore we expect you to explain that to them. USGH & Hudson are historic. The buildings here are old (but restored). Our bathrooms and kitchens are designed to look old in an artistic "vintage" way. Our furniture is mostly hi…

I actually kinda see where they're coming from. I'm sure they do get complaints from people who never stay anywhere besides upscale chain hotels. But obviously this is not the way to address the issue. It's mean and ultimately self-defeating.

Yes this is true, but this is the wrong way to do it. I have stayed at many places reviewed badly by people who just do not get it. Like I stayed at a wonderful rustic place in Maine [1] but there were quite a few reviews complaining about the rustic nature and giving them one star. As a human being I can then read these reviews and decide that the people rating it one star were expecting that this should have been some 5 star modern hotel or Sandals. This happens with restaurants too as some people do not take into account the cost/location of a restaurant in reviews "I have had better burritos in San Diego, zero stars!" when reviewing a Tex-Mex place in New Jersey.

Bottom line is that people are smart enough to filter out bad reviews.

1. http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotels-g40525-Boothbay_Harbor_Mai...

Re: Hotel fines $500 for every bad review posted online

#108

Post by ctdonath »

Maybe it's the "star rating" system that's broken.

When reviewing rated product/service offerings, I go straight to the 1-star reviews. Skimming those, I differentiate the "valid complaints" from flukes (a small failure rate is understandable), unrealistic expectations (it's a vintage hotel, not a new Hilton), tangential problems (Amazon didn't smash the box, the shipper did), hysteria (political opposition isn't a reason), humor (Family Circus isn't peer-reviewed), etc.

We need a way to express these, especially a "for what it is, it's good (whether it met my needs/interests or not)".

Re: Hotel fines $500 for every bad review posted online

#109

Post by ck2 »

Why don't people understand that free-speech protections only means the government cannot throw you in jail for what you say (but they do anyway under the "try to stop us" method http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/07/12/201422486 ).

It has no meaning against other individuals.

Re: Hotel fines $500 for every bad review posted online

#110

Post by dragonwriter »

jebus989 wrote: post #24
rrrx3 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I should be stating the obvious here, but the fact that I even have to post this means that obviously, I am not. Just because something is written into the terms of an agreement doesn't make it legal.

Yeah, you are not. Say someone writes a contract saying that they can slap me in the face and each time they do I must pay $100, if I carefully read and then sign that contract, and they then slap me three times — have I been assaulted or do I owe $300, or both?

Neither, maybe. As contract it seems to fail for lack of consideration, but it still probably is consent to being slapped so there is no assault.
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