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Hotel fines $500 for every bad review posted online

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Re: Hotel fines $500 for every bad review posted online

#81

Post by danielweber »

baddox wrote: post #76
danielweber wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Context matters. Participation in a sport generally brings with it an expectation to receive minor injuries customary to that sport. A legal contract depends on mutual understanding. People learning to box generally understand they are going to get hit. People booking a wedding party generally don't expect to be held responsible for their guests having opinions they post online. The hotel would have to make this poli…

> Participation in a sport generally brings with it an expectation to receive minor injuries customary to that sport. Participation in a contract that specifically covers terms for being slapped also bring with it an expectation of being slapped.

I'm not sure how this is a response.

It's not enough to have language in a contract. There needs to be understanding by both sides about what is being agreed to.

Since the Internet engaged mob-mode before engaging investigation-mode, we don't know how clear these terms are to people who are booking weddings.

It might be very clear because they send an email explicitly telling the bridal party about these terms and asking them to consent, which would also be a signal to the party about the quality of online reviews. Or it might be buried in the middle of 12 other clauses and the customer doesn't know about it.

Re: Hotel fines $500 for every bad review posted online

#82

Post by mox1 »

sekasi wrote: post #50

Can someone living in the US tell me how this could be legal? Surely it's not?

Freedom of speech laws apply to the Government, not private corporations.

There is no "right" to free speech in the US between 2 non government entities.

This would be illegal if a publicly owned entity had this policy (say a historic library or a public garden)....

It's stupid and probably not enforceable, but its a civil court case.

Re: Hotel fines $500 for every bad review posted online

#83

Post by lifeisstillgood »

jebus989 wrote: post #24
rrrx3 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I should be stating the obvious here, but the fact that I even have to post this means that obviously, I am not. Just because something is written into the terms of an agreement doesn't make it legal.

Yeah, you are not. Say someone writes a contract saying that they can slap me in the face and each time they do I must pay $100, if I carefully read and then sign that contract, and they then slap me three times — have I been assaulted or do I owe $300, or both?

You have been assaulted. Even professional boxers commit assault in every match. They just are not prosecuted for it because it is a sport and regulated and traditional. If they, for example, bite someone's ear off, then they do get prosecuted for assault. The fact it was in the ring during the fight does not stop that.

Your contract would be unenforceable btw - I could slap you three times (hell make it twenty) and walk off - you could not get any court to enforce payment. You could threaten to accuse me of assault if I did not pay up - but then you are blackmailing me and would do more time than I would for assault.

But I suspect that the hotel owner has been slapped by a couple of brides over this :-)

Re: Hotel fines $500 for every bad review posted online

#84

Post by chasing »

Yes. And because of this you should definitely go to Yelp and give them a one-star review. And destroy their Facebook page. And maybe go take a shit on their doorstep. That's definitely the answer when a small business makes an error like this. They're frustrated by something they don't feel is fair and made a ham-fisted attempt to fix the problem. Ruin them.

(The ice machine thing, though -- that actually seems like it's much more indicative that it might be worth staying somewhere else...)

Re: Hotel fines $500 for every bad review posted online

#85

Post by baddox »

danielweber wrote: post #81
baddox wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Participation in a sport generally brings with it an expectation to receive minor injuries customary to that sport. Participation in a contract that specifically covers terms for being slapped also bring with it an expectation of being slapped.

I'm not sure how this is a response. It's not enough to have language in a contract. There needs to be understanding by both sides about what is being agreed to. Since the Internet engaged mob-mode before engaging investigation-mode, we don't know how clear these terms are to people who are booking weddings. It might be very clear because they send an email explicitly telling the bridal party about these terms and as…

Obviously there needs to be mutual understanding of a contract for it to be enforced. The original question included the phrase "if I carefully read and then sign that contract," which I think indicates that the contract was mutually understood and agreed upon.

Re: Hotel fines $500 for every bad review posted online

#86

Post by chmullig »

baddox wrote: post #51
k-mcgrady wrote: post #44

Is there any proof this is happening other than this post? I hope so otherwise internet vigilante justice is destroying a business and people's livelihoods. Edit: I took a look at their site and apparently they only enforce this policy for weddings: "Also, please note that we only request this of wedding parties and for the reasons explained above." The reasons seem to be that as guests are not booking the hotel them…

I don't see any evidence that they've actually enforced the rule, but the rule is posted on their website: http://www.unionstreetguesthouse.com/events_weddings.shtml .

Read the yelp reviews, at least once mentions it.

Re: Hotel fines $500 for every bad review posted online

#87

Post by imgabe »

I'm not sure I understand how this is supposed to work. They say they'll take it out of your deposit. But a review would happen after the wedding has taken place, yes?

So by then wouldn't you have paid in full and settled everything? In that case, they shouldn't have any money you would be expecting to get back from them. So what are they taking it out of? Are they just going to send you a bill for $500 per bad review? Is there anyone who will not just laugh and throw it away?

Re: Hotel fines $500 for every bad review posted online

#88

Post by JadeNB »

cookiecaper wrote: post #74
ebbv wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't matter where they claim this fee is legitimate, if the person refuses to pay (which I would), there's no way this would be upheld in civil court.

On what grounds would it be dismissed from a civil court? Similar clauses are in many contracts. I'm just curious if there's a reason to believe this is illegal other than simple unpopularity.

> Similar clauses are in many contracts.

I'm not sure that I believe this. I can believe that there are some places out there that think that they can get away with enjoining you against posting negative reviews (until the law eventually settles down against that, as I'm sure that it will), but I find it hard to believe that there are many places that think that they can fine you for the actions of other people. Can you give examples?

EDIT: As baddox (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8131575) politely points out, I worded this badly. I want to say something like "the actions of other people over which you have no reasonable expectation of control" (for example: you can reasonably be expected to prevent guests in your room from damaging the furniture, but you cannot reasonably be expected to monitor the Internet usage of all your guests after they leave to make sure that they do not post a negative review).

Re: Hotel fines $500 for every bad review posted online

#90

Post by dspillett »

zorrb wrote: post #36
dspillett wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> for the reasons explained above Being lazy and not reading it myself: do they attempt to adequately explain the policy other than "we'd like to be able to be dickish without getting bad reviews" in "the reasons explained above"? (edit for those only reading this far: it appears that they do, see the replies to this post for detail)

"Please know that despite the fact that wedding couples love Hudson and our Inn, your friends and families may not. This is due to the fact that your guests may not understand what we offer - therefore we expect you to explain that to them. USGH & Hudson are historic. The buildings here are old (but restored). Our bathrooms and kitchens are designed to look old in an artistic "vintage" way. Our furniture is mostly hi…

Actually, that I can understand.

If we were in an understanding world the guests who wouldn't normally go to a place like that (and won't/don't enjoy it) but are because it is part of a big event like a wedding, would not leave bad reviews on that basis on the understanding that it is what the bride/groom/others wanted and they are happy.

But we are not in such a world and there are people out there who will leave a bad review because they went to somewhere they would never like on its own merits and don't like it...

I can't say I like their way of dealing with it and can see why people are up in arms, but I can see the problem that they are trying to protect themselves from.

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