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Russia enacts 'draconian' law for bloggers and online media

bbc.com

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Re: Russia enacts 'draconian' law for bloggers and online media

#11

Post by guard-of-terra »

trhway wrote: post #4
pinaceae wrote: post #3

If the US really would like to hit Putin in the balls, they would offer all Russian university graduates (at least in STEM) a green card and a one way flight ticket to the US. Since 9/11 and the effects on immigration to the US there has been a whole lost generation of Russian techies sitting on the benches, not being able to join the rank of Brin and other over here. Lots of very smart, very well educated people.

that's what people outside and even many inside don't understand about Russia - many people there, even university graduates, will stay there at their own will. Putin is really supported by the Russian people - that is the real deep problem, ie. the problem is with the people not with the one of them who just happened to be the leader. To "adamnemecek" (below) - no. Unfortunately support of Putin (or at least of the…

You are not right. People who are vocally pro-Putin will be the first ones to grab a Green Card.

After all, Putin's own daugters live in the Netherlands. He's setting an example here, isn't it?

Re: Russia enacts 'draconian' law for bloggers and online media

#12

Post by purringmeow »

adamnemecek wrote: post #5
trhway wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that's what people outside and even many inside don't understand about Russia - many people there, even university graduates, will stay there at their own will. Putin is really supported by the Russian people - that is the real deep problem, ie. the problem is with the people not with the one of them who just happened to be the leader. To "adamnemecek" (below) - no. Unfortunately support of Putin (or at least of the…

Presumably Putin is supported mainly by people who don't fall in the category of people described by the parent comment. Sure there might be some who support him but I'm guessing that most don't.

Nope, it seems counterintuitive that educated people might support someone who is pretty much a dictator, but they do. Russian mentality is different and seems odd to westerners.

Re: Russia enacts 'draconian' law for bloggers and online media

#13

Post by bzz01 »

guard-of-terra wrote: post #11
trhway wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that's what people outside and even many inside don't understand about Russia - many people there, even university graduates, will stay there at their own will. Putin is really supported by the Russian people - that is the real deep problem, ie. the problem is with the people not with the one of them who just happened to be the leader. To "adamnemecek" (below) - no. Unfortunately support of Putin (or at least of the…

You are not right. People who are vocally pro-Putin will be the first ones to grab a Green Card. After all, Putin's own daugters live in the Netherlands. He's setting an example here, isn't it?

For STEM fields (esp. software) it was relatively easy to get H1B visa until 2013, yet very few people (think couple thousands per year) actually did that compared to 1990s if you look at USCIS stats.

Re: Russia enacts 'draconian' law for bloggers and online media

#14

Post by Zancarius »

purringmeow wrote: post #12
adamnemecek wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably Putin is supported mainly by people who don't fall in the category of people described by the parent comment. Sure there might be some who support him but I'm guessing that most don't.

Nope, it seems counterintuitive that educated people might support someone who is pretty much a dictator, but they do. Russian mentality is different and seems odd to westerners.

To that end, The Soviet Experiment by Ronald G. Suny [1] is a worthwhile read, and I'd highly recommend it to the curious. It provides a great deal of insight into Russia's recent history (and outlook), from the fall of the Tsar to more modern times. Suny provides a backdrop that illustrates some of what purringmeow alludes to, although it (obviously) contends with the creation of the Soviet Union and some of the cultural attitude for which it was responsible.

[1] http://www.amazon.com/The-Soviet-Experiment-Russia-Successor...

Re: Russia enacts 'draconian' law for bloggers and online media

#15

Post by Zancarius »

guard-of-terra wrote: post #10

As a Russian, I no longer care. Either this starts to change, or I'm out of here. There's an upper bound of shit one is ready to absorb even for the nice pay. The war in Ukraine might be the tipping point, but not in the sense you would perhaps think.

> The war in Ukraine might be the tipping point, but not in the sense you would perhaps think.

I'm curious what you mean by this (emphasis in particular) and would like to know more, if it's not asking too much.

Re: Russia enacts 'draconian' law for bloggers and online media

#16

Post by maneesh »

Zancarius wrote: post #15
guard-of-terra wrote: post #10

As a Russian, I no longer care. Either this starts to change, or I'm out of here. There's an upper bound of shit one is ready to absorb even for the nice pay. The war in Ukraine might be the tipping point, but not in the sense you would perhaps think.

> The war in Ukraine might be the tipping point, but not in the sense you would perhaps think . I'm curious what you mean by this (emphasis in particular) and would like to know more, if it's not asking too much.

sounds like the Ukraine war is having indirect effects, like the new law, that end up being the tipping point making him leave

Re: Russia enacts 'draconian' law for bloggers and online media

#18

Post by guard-of-terra »

Zancarius wrote: post #15
guard-of-terra wrote: post #10

As a Russian, I no longer care. Either this starts to change, or I'm out of here. There's an upper bound of shit one is ready to absorb even for the nice pay. The war in Ukraine might be the tipping point, but not in the sense you would perhaps think.

> The war in Ukraine might be the tipping point, but not in the sense you would perhaps think . I'm curious what you mean by this (emphasis in particular) and would like to know more, if it's not asking too much.

You would think that Putin will stand down over a strong applied force (for example, economic sanctions).

No he won't. But. I expect it is possible for Putin to be torn apart by conflicting vectors of several forces - USA and Europe; oligarchs and business; and Russian people finally enter the play since it's them who wage the war in Ukraine. The tidal shocks may do what a single force won't.

Re: Russia enacts 'draconian' law for bloggers and online media

#19

Post by Zancarius »

guard-of-terra wrote: post #18
Zancarius wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The war in Ukraine might be the tipping point, but not in the sense you would perhaps think . I'm curious what you mean by this (emphasis in particular) and would like to know more, if it's not asking too much.

You would think that Putin will stand down over a strong applied force (for example, economic sanctions). No he won't. But. I expect it is possible for Putin to be torn apart by conflicting vectors of several forces - USA and Europe; oligarchs and business; and Russian people finally enter the play since it's them who wage the war in Ukraine. The tidal shocks may do what a single force won't.

Part of me hopes you're right, but I'll be honest: Speaking as an American, I don't think the US or Europe have the gumption to face Putin head on with his domestic policies, no matter what ills he may bring about on the Russian people. Worse, I think some of our domestic problems will preoccupy us substantially in the coming years, although with an election coming up this year it's plausible stronger talk might supplant previous timidity. I know of a few politicians who have been reluctant to take a stance on Ukraine simply on the merit that they're afraid they might be accused of attempting to reignite the Cold War.

Although, I think I see what you're getting at: Multiple forces, political, economic, and domestic could force his hand--I just have very little faith in my government doing the Right Thing in light of recent revelations (NSA, et al) and it's unlikely we'll be of any help.

In a way, I was rather hoping the downing of MH17 might've triggered sufficient outrage to dampen the conflict in Ukraine and perhaps prevent Putin from continuing down the road of stripping away citizens' rights, but I guess that's premature? (Sadly, few here in the US even care--I'm not even sure how many people are aware of the downing.)

Thanks for taking the time to answer my question. Much appreciated.

Re: Russia enacts 'draconian' law for bloggers and online media

#20

Post by guard-of-terra »

Zancarius wrote: post #19
guard-of-terra wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would think that Putin will stand down over a strong applied force (for example, economic sanctions). No he won't. But. I expect it is possible for Putin to be torn apart by conflicting vectors of several forces - USA and Europe; oligarchs and business; and Russian people finally enter the play since it's them who wage the war in Ukraine. The tidal shocks may do what a single force won't.

Part of me hopes you're right, but I'll be honest: Speaking as an American, I don't think the US or Europe have the gumption to face Putin head on with his domestic policies, no matter what ills he may bring about on the Russian people. Worse, I think some of our domestic problems will preoccupy us substantially in the coming years, although with an election coming up this year it's plausible stronger talk might supp…

"I just have very little faith in my government doing the Right Thing"

This doesn't matter, as I tried to tell you. The vector direction is not important, applied force is. Then we expect the regime either tearing apart or losing balance.

UPD: "and perhaps prevent Putin from continuing down the road of stripping away citizens' rights" We don't care anymore. He has already broke so many things that we don't care for the rest, rather for a reboot. And he's not gaining balance by breaking more things.

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