Developing a Process for Visualizing the Insanity • Hacker News Board

Re: Developing a Process for Visualizing the Insanity

#31

Post by electronslave » Tue, Sep 08, 2009, 9:15 PM UTC

mcantelon wrote: post #21

electronslave wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I refer you to my previous post on this topic: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=801001

I read your post and, while it makes some good points, nothing in it contradicts my statement.

You didn't read it. I'm arguing for a more complex model, rather than an idealistic one.

"Less total weight carried, across the system as a whole, would result in less fuel consumption."

While this is correct from very simple standpoint, what are you really saying?

"The system carries n amount of weight." Okay, I can accept that.

"The system carries less weight if one person does not fly." True, but that one person's weight is offset on the specific flight in question by cargo.

For a very large value of n, n-200 = n. An airplane takes a massive amount of fuel to accelerate to rotation speed (it's not just pushing you and cargo, it's also shoving vast quantities of aluminum, steel, plastic and fuel.) The empty weight of a 747-400 (the industry standard) is 400,000 lbs., of which 200 is no factor.

If that empty plane takes off, it will use 100 times the body weight of a human being in fuel during takeoff operations alone and continue to burn as much during each hour of cruise flight. Adding humans decreases range. Adding cargo decreases range. Fuel will be burned.

Your statement assumes a very simple model of "if I don't get on that plane, I'm saving the environment." The actual model is "if at least 200 people don't get on that plane, a seasonally-appropriate ~15 minute delay will happen until cargo can be loaded."

I feel, therefore, that I have contradicted your statement quite soundly. I assure you that I have no interest in representing myself as an environment-hating industry apologist.

Re: Developing a Process for Visualizing the Insanity

#32

Post by alabut » Tue, Sep 08, 2009, 9:18 PM UTC

jack7890 wrote: post #22

I think Dustin is a supremely talented designer, and I find his writing generally engaging, but remain perplexed by how everything he posts, no matter how mundane, flies to the top of HN.

It's probably a combo of the fact that he's YC alum, his articles are also an experiment in art directing every single individual post, plus you don't find a lot of designers that exhibit the hacker mentality of tinkering with stuff in public to see how it works. As a designer, the natural instinct is to wait until something is fully baked and say "ta da! look how pretty this is!" rather than show a work in progress.

That's what makes Mark Boulton's Drupal work so interesting as well:

http://www.d7ux.org/

Re: Developing a Process for Visualizing the Insanity

#33

Post by jack7890 » Tue, Sep 08, 2009, 9:28 PM UTC

mrlebowski wrote: post #30

jack7890 wrote: post #22

I think Dustin is a supremely talented designer, and I find his writing generally engaging, but remain perplexed by how everything he posts, no matter how mundane, flies to the top of HN.

yes, he's got good PR here ;-D from comments on some of my previous comments, I'd suggest flagging any posts that you do not like :) Pasting here for convenience - (by robg) Please don't submit comments complaining that a submission is inappropriate for the site. If you think something is spam or offtopic, flag it by going to its page and clicking on the "flag" link. (Not all users will see this; there is a karma thr…

Duly noted, thanks. I don't think this is flag-worthy; I mildly enjoyed it. I'm just curious why his posts do so extraordinarily well here.

Re: Developing a Process for Visualizing the Insanity

#34

Post by mcantelon » Tue, Sep 08, 2009, 9:29 PM UTC

electronslave wrote: post #31

mcantelon wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read your post and, while it makes some good points, nothing in it contradicts my statement.

You didn't read it. I'm arguing for a more complex model, rather than an idealistic one. "Less total weight carried, across the system as a whole, would result in less fuel consumption." While this is correct from very simple standpoint, what are you really saying? "The system carries n amount of weight." Okay, I can accept that. "The system carries less weight if one person does not fly." True, but that one person's…

I actually did read your post, thanks. Your post didn't seem to argue for a more complex model as much as attempt to make the case that if people weren't flying they'd be doing other equally destructive things.

>While this is correct from very simple standpoint, what are you really saying?

What I'm saying is quite simple. Carelessly wasting resources, as unnecessarily flying nonstop for a month does, wastes resources and we shouldn't condone it.

>that one person's weight is offset on the specific flight in question by cargo.

If someone doesn't fly and cargo is substituted for them, that amount of cargo doesn't need to be flown on a separate flight. The less flights the less fuel consumed and the less environmental damage, no?

Re: Developing a Process for Visualizing the Insanity

#35

Post by lsternlicht » Tue, Sep 08, 2009, 11:00 PM UTC

jack7890 wrote: post #22

I think Dustin is a supremely talented designer, and I find his writing generally engaging, but remain perplexed by how everything he posts, no matter how mundane, flies to the top of HN.

Most of his articles are great examples of web design that greatly enhance a reader's experience. I think that the importance of good design is often overlooked. I've always admired the design of YC startups, which I believe has made for more enjoyable experiences. After all, design is one of the three things YC mentions.

"How do we choose who to fund? The people in your group are what matter most to us. We look for brains, motivation, and a sense of design. Experience is helpful but not critical."