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Big Data Firm Says It Can Link Snowden Data To Changed Terrorist Behavior

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Re: Big Data Firm Says It Can Link Snowden Data To Changed Terrorist Behavior

#21

Post by atmosx »

tptacek wrote: post #14
lectrick wrote: post #4

1) There is nothing that indicates that this "encryption upgrade" wasn't planned for some time. Correlation ≠ causation, and all that. 2) The very word "terrorist" is disputed, and depends on your side in any given dispute. It is the "high treason" of the 20th and 21st century, an accusation or insinuation used mainly for political reasons and not for actual utility: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism "In the int…

The idea that al Qaeda might not be a terrorist group is a false controversy, as is the idea that participating in open source might be treason.

I think it's safe to assume that a 15 year old kid in Palestine is much more terrorised at the sight of Benjamin Netanyahu than Bin Laden.

It's also safe to assume that a kid in Ukraine is terrorised by Russians or by US/EU depending on which side of the country was he lives.

So, to you Al Qaeda is a terrorist group and I totally get that (to me too). But you have to understand that to Afghans (and a huge load of populations worldwide) the USA/NATO is the terrorist group. That's why what @lectrick said is right I'm afraid.

So either we can assume that all of these parties are terrorists since they indulge in actions of terrorism ?

Re: Big Data Firm Says It Can Link Snowden Data To Changed Terrorist Behavior

#22

Post by TheCondor »

jfasi wrote: post #12

This provides a useful way to frame people concerns' about Snowden's revelations. Every intelligence service exists at the intersection of two completely opposite goals: in order to fulfill their mandate to protect their country from its enemies, they need as much information about the actions of their enemies as possible. On the other hand, in order to protect their country from themselves, they need to have as ligh…

You have some points. There is a lot of missing data though. Do we know that cracking their program was significant in gathering intelligence? Do we know if they even regularly use it?

The lack of oversight, or at least effective oversight, makes it difficult to trust the efficacy of their supposed tactics. Also if you want to be really pedantic about it how do you suss out causation vs correlation regarding Snowden? The only thing about the NSA that I feel really certain about is they want Snowden punished. That and they publicly lie and lie to congress, we know that too.

Re: Big Data Firm Says It Can Link Snowden Data To Changed Terrorist Behavior

#23

Post by grey-area »

jfasi wrote: post #12

This provides a useful way to frame people concerns' about Snowden's revelations. Every intelligence service exists at the intersection of two completely opposite goals: in order to fulfill their mandate to protect their country from its enemies, they need as much information about the actions of their enemies as possible. On the other hand, in order to protect their country from themselves, they need to have as ligh…

in order to fulfill their mandate to protect their country from its enemies, they need as much information about the actions of their enemies as possible.

But who is the enemy, and who defines them? Terrorist watch lists now contain over a million names in the US alone - are all those people plausible terrorists? Spy agencies now routinely record the communications of entire populations, domestic and foreign, and use that information for economic and political gain (why else spy on Petrobras and G20?). Terrorism seems to be the least of their preoccupations given the focus of their spying.

There is definitely a balance to be struck between a spying agency with effective oversight on their tremendous powers, pursuing only that tiny minority considered dangerous enemies who actively plan to attack (worldwide that is probably in the hundreds, or at most the thousands of people), and a spying agency which views surveilling entire populations, assassination en masse, denying travel, subverting encryption, and even spying on and lying to the politicians who oversee them as acceptable.

Unfortunately at present we find ourselves at one extreme of that continuum.

Re: Big Data Firm Says It Can Link Snowden Data To Changed Terrorist Behavior

#24

Post by dyeje »

jfasi wrote: post #12

This provides a useful way to frame people concerns' about Snowden's revelations. Every intelligence service exists at the intersection of two completely opposite goals: in order to fulfill their mandate to protect their country from its enemies, they need as much information about the actions of their enemies as possible. On the other hand, in order to protect their country from themselves, they need to have as ligh…

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

Re: Big Data Firm Says It Can Link Snowden Data To Changed Terrorist Behavior

#25

Post by chrisbennet »

When a reporter finds out that the police planted evidence to get a conviction, is it the reporters fault if the criminal goes free?

When a reporter uncovers the story of rapes on campus, is it the reporter's fault that the university's reputation is tarnished?

When Snowden exposed that the NSA was (unconstitutionally) spying on every citizen, is it somehow Snoden's fault that terrorists gain an advantage?

Re: Big Data Firm Says It Can Link Snowden Data To Changed Terrorist Behavior

#26

Post by belorn »

There has been studies that linked the type of surveillance NSA do to behavior changes which decreases calls to hot-lines, doctors, lawyers, and priests. Since suicide is the second most common cause of death in adolescents, one would think that tampering with the effectiveness of suicide prevention is worse than blowing the whistle on the surveillance.

Now I don't doubt that this report that was made by a CIA funded company include a somewhat unbiased view, but maybe in a few years time a independent research group could look into the effect that the NSA surveillance and the Snowden leaks had onto society.

Re: Big Data Firm Says It Can Link Snowden Data To Changed Terrorist Behavior

#27

Post by happyscrappy »

higherpurpose wrote: post #19

The NSA has been found to destroy the trust even US companies have, by spying on everything . As a result everyone is going to want to take their privacy more seriously, now that they know they can't trust US companies/government. So I don't know why that's a surprise. It's not only the expected outcome, but the desirable outcome. NSA or not, Snowden has also showed "normal people" that stuff they do on the Internet…

>now that they know they can't trust US companies/government

Or the rest of the West for that matter:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteen_Eyes#Future_enlargemen...

Re: Big Data Firm Says It Can Link Snowden Data To Changed Terrorist Behavior

#29

Post by cthulhuhodor »

belorn wrote: post #26

There has been studies that linked the type of surveillance NSA do to behavior changes which decreases calls to hot-lines, doctors, lawyers, and priests. Since suicide is the second most common cause of death in adolescents, one would think that tampering with the effectiveness of suicide prevention is worse than blowing the whistle on the surveillance. Now I don't doubt that this report that was made by a CIA funded…

link to said studies?

Re: Big Data Firm Says It Can Link Snowden Data To Changed Terrorist Behavior

#30

Post by collyw »

x1798DE wrote: post #16

Even assuming it's true and these leaks made it harder to catch terrorists (I would be surprised if it made a huge difference), I have to say I really don't care. Terrorism is not a very significant real risk to people living in the first world (compared to the risk of fatal lightning strike or drowning in a bathtub, for example), but pervasive mass surveillance is. In general, it's kinda absurd to imagine that anyth…

I took a flight back to Scotland last year. There was an anti-terrorism poster, asking to be on the look out for any of these suspicious thing: A van, a laptop, a mobile phone... It was just ridiculous every day stuff that the average person would use.
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