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The Lowdown on Lidar

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Re: The Lowdown on Lidar

#22

Speed radars are good for speed traps, but not so great to prevent speed related incidents. They share the same fatal flaw with all other single-point speed meters: You can just slow down for a minute, while you pass by the speed trap, and then speed up for the rest of your trip. Instead, a 2-point speed meter (i.e. license plate readers every few miles, measuring time between matching reads) system is superior becau…

Possibly because the cost/benefit just isn't there.

In the UK, the data shows that speeding (excessive speed for the conditions above the speed limit) is the primary cause in single digit percentage of accidents. I believe there's data from 1996 and 2007 for this, will dig it out when I'm not on mobile.

If you want to spend money on accident prevention, there's much better things to target than speeding.

Re: The Lowdown on Lidar

#24
post #17
post #9

Can anyone tell me why speeding tickets aren't enforced with video cameras (like red-light tickets are)? It would seem to be much more accurate, much easier to enforce, and much harder to dispute. Irrespective of the rights or wrongs of speed limit laws, I do believe that consistent and efficient enforcement can only be a good thing.

In Ireland we have a system where you can contest any of these automated fines in court. The problem is that the fines and penalty points double should you contest and lose. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penalty_points_in_Ireland

How is that even legal? It seems like it would infringe on the requirement of due process anywhere in the world.

Re: The Lowdown on Lidar

#25

Speed radars are good for speed traps, but not so great to prevent speed related incidents. They share the same fatal flaw with all other single-point speed meters: You can just slow down for a minute, while you pass by the speed trap, and then speed up for the rest of your trip. Instead, a 2-point speed meter (i.e. license plate readers every few miles, measuring time between matching reads) system is superior becau…

Perhaps it's because you're ticketing the vehicle's registered owner, but not necessarily the driver.

Re: The Lowdown on Lidar

#26

Well, he fought with half science: he came up with a set of testable hypotheses, but didn't actually run any of the tests. I guess that's as scientific as cosmology :-)

It's not even half science, it's just a big slide deck of FUD padded with a healthy amount of entitlement.

Be honest with yourself: If you got a ticket where the indicated speed was massively different than the speed you were actually travelling, you'd fight it too. And you might do some research into the validity of the reading, as well.

You'd especially do it in a state where the law says "x" mph over the limit and your license may get suspended (meaning you walk for 60 days). It'd be worth fighting for.

Re: The Lowdown on Lidar

#27

Speed radars are good for speed traps, but not so great to prevent speed related incidents. They share the same fatal flaw with all other single-point speed meters: You can just slow down for a minute, while you pass by the speed trap, and then speed up for the rest of your trip. Instead, a 2-point speed meter (i.e. license plate readers every few miles, measuring time between matching reads) system is superior becau…

"I can't believe [average speed camera systems are] not implanted at least in all interstate freeways."

Possibly because a civil society, favoring the preservation of a measure of basic autonomy, does not implement every measure for tracking, enforcing, circumscribing, and monitoring the people.

Re: The Lowdown on Lidar

#28

Speed radars are good for speed traps, but not so great to prevent speed related incidents. They share the same fatal flaw with all other single-point speed meters: You can just slow down for a minute, while you pass by the speed trap, and then speed up for the rest of your trip. Instead, a 2-point speed meter (i.e. license plate readers every few miles, measuring time between matching reads) system is superior becau…

The fundamental reason is because drivers feel entitled to speed and most voters are drivers. People with expensive cars further believe they've paid for the privilege of violating more laws more often, and those people are also more influential in policy setting. There are lots of expressions of this fundamental reason, such as people throwing a fit about automated license plate reading in the name of privacy. But o…

OR it could be because speeding isn't that dangerous and the current limits on most roads don't represent what speed people actually drive at or what speed people could safely drive at.

It's different on residential streets, but on freeways I think the way Germany handles it is better. Speeding tickets (and most traffic violations really) are not about safety or curbing behavior they're about generating revenue for the town/city.

Re: The Lowdown on Lidar

#29
post #22

Speed radars are good for speed traps, but not so great to prevent speed related incidents. They share the same fatal flaw with all other single-point speed meters: You can just slow down for a minute, while you pass by the speed trap, and then speed up for the rest of your trip. Instead, a 2-point speed meter (i.e. license plate readers every few miles, measuring time between matching reads) system is superior becau…

Possibly because the cost/benefit just isn't there. In the UK, the data shows that speeding (excessive speed for the conditions above the speed limit) is the primary cause in single digit percentage of accidents. I believe there's data from 1996 and 2007 for this, will dig it out when I'm not on mobile. If you want to spend money on accident prevention, there's much better things to target than speeding.

It's not about saving lives. It's about revenue generation.

Re: The Lowdown on Lidar

#30

Speed radars are good for speed traps, but not so great to prevent speed related incidents. They share the same fatal flaw with all other single-point speed meters: You can just slow down for a minute, while you pass by the speed trap, and then speed up for the rest of your trip. Instead, a 2-point speed meter (i.e. license plate readers every few miles, measuring time between matching reads) system is superior becau…

The fundamental reason is because drivers feel entitled to speed and most voters are drivers. People with expensive cars further believe they've paid for the privilege of violating more laws more often, and those people are also more influential in policy setting. There are lots of expressions of this fundamental reason, such as people throwing a fit about automated license plate reading in the name of privacy. But o…

  a person turns into a sociopathic scofflaw as soon as he 
  gets behind the wheel
Boo this man!

That is an ideological position, and I could easily apply the same blanket label of absolute sociopathy to law enforcement, and I'd be just as wrong.

But there's a difference between a mechanized, automatic law enforcement system and a law enforcment system that is implemented as a practice performed by living human beings. The human version is prone to imperfections and corruption, yes. But mechanized, automated law enforcement really COULD express a perfect ideology and attempt to enforce it perfectly, with an unforgiving brutality, which could not otherwise be accomplished with the complicity of human beings. Please understand that difference.

If you think placing a human being behind the machinery of an automobile is automatically bad, think about what it might mean to place a human being behind the machinery of a fully automated law enforcement system, with that same lens of blanket sociopathy.

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