Micro heaters cut 87% off my electric heat bill • Hacker News Board

Re: Micro heaters cut 87% off my electric heat bill

#51

Post by dredmorbius » Wed, Jul 30, 2014, 11:58 PM UTC

schiffern wrote: post #10

debrice wrote: post #9

Well, not heating your house enough can also cost you your house as mold and ice can grow in very cold zone of your house. But I do like the ingenuity of the solution. Shit Norwegians Say: “There’s no such thing as bad weather, only bad clothes”

This is addressed in the article. >FAQ: It might work in Montana, but in Seattle, our windows would get moldy >There are a variety of ways to mitigate the mold problems that occur in cold, humid climates. I did some experimenting when I lived in the Seattle area and have compared notes with people that are still living there. This is a really large issues even if you don't try this. While there are many things to be…

Vinegar is also excellent at combating mold (before it gets established), and is gentle on pretty much any surface.

A 50-50 vinegar-water solution can simply be sprayed onto walls, floors, carpets, and other surfaces.

Another is fully airing out a bathroom. I'll set a fan to move air until the walls and other surfaces are dry. Especially useful if you've got an interior bathroom. Otherwise, an openable window is highly useful.

Re: Micro heaters cut 87% off my electric heat bill

#52

Post by bluthru » Wed, Jul 30, 2014, 11:58 PM UTC

lutorm wrote: post #41

bluthru wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it does. Heating up a hole in your ceiling does not efficiently warm the occupant. You want to introduce heat low and near occupants. Also, changing out multiple incandescents means more manufacturing, more truck deliveries to the store, more manufacturing, etc. vs. using a single LED bulb for two decades. If you live in coal country, then you definitely want to reduce your electrical load and instead rely…

Most heat from incandescents is infrared radiation, which travels. If you get useful light from the bulb, you also get useful heat. Plenty of rooms are heated with one big, honking radiator, which certainly is no more effective. That said, it's true that some of the heat ends up not being useful (just like a lot of the light from the bulb doesn't either) -- unless there's a heated story above, of course. And I never…

What's the attenuation of the UV from a light bulb in the ceiling?

Re: Micro heaters cut 87% off my electric heat bill

#53

Post by arh68 » Wed, Jul 30, 2014, 11:58 PM UTC

Imagine how much more they could save by keeping the heated mattress pad on and never leave the bed! I mostly jest..

The author seems totally unaware of the efficiency gains that a heat pump can provide. A 300W space heater will be easily outmatched by a heat pump that consumes 300W (unless we're dropping way, way below 0C). The efficiency is likely ~3x [1]. I hope the author isn't making this mistake out of disdain for centralized hvac, since window unit heat pumps are readily available for small spaces.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_pump#Efficiency

Re: Micro heaters cut 87% off my electric heat bill

#54

Post by mangecoeur » Wed, Jul 30, 2014, 11:58 PM UTC

An interesting approach - though for contrast, a well built passivhaus or low exergy design can achieve similar savings or even net positive. At a cost, true, but at much greater convenience. I feel having to do this is basically admitting that our houses are terribly engineered. And yes, with this kind of system you get problems with damp and mold which can have some pretty serious health impacts.

Re: Micro heaters cut 87% off my electric heat bill

#55

Post by maxerickson » Thu, Jul 31, 2014, 12:02 AM UTC

cjensen wrote: post #38

Given that he uses electric heating, it's pretty funny the electric company wanted him to switch to florescent. That buys you nothing in those months where the heater is on. What I'd really like to know is: why not switch to gas?

He mentions homesteading at the end. I guess he doesn't have a natural gas supply available. Propane and fuel oil aren't the completely obvious win over electric that natural gas is.

Re: Micro heaters cut 87% off my electric heat bill

#56

Post by dragonwriter » Thu, Jul 31, 2014, 12:04 AM UTC

curun1r wrote: post #43

Swizec wrote: post #6

This is where I really prefer the European model[1] - you heat the whole house with hot water. You make hot water with cheap natural gas. If you're lucky enough, you can even use geothermal. Then you use insulation. This especially is something that feels nobody in the US has heard of. At least in California. As a result, your radiators are turned down to 2 out of 10 all day (heating turns off automatically overnight…

> Then you use insulation. This especially is something that feels nobody in the US has heard of. At least in California. In defense of Californians, most of us rarely, if ever, turn on a heater and most homes here don't have AC. Our heating and cooling costs are a small fraction of those of you who live in places that have seasons.

> > Then you use insulation. This especially is something that feels nobody in the US has heard of. At least in California.

There's lots of poorly insulated homes in California, either because they are old or cheaply-made, or because they are in places that have milder weather where it is less necessary. But there are also lots of well-insulated homes in California.

> In defense of Californians, most of us rarely, if ever, turn on a heater and most homes here don't have AC. Our heating and cooling costs are a small fraction of those of you who live in places that have seasons.

As a Central Valley resident, I think you may be falsely generalizing from "the Bay Area" to "California". Even cheap homes in the Valley usually have AC, even if its not central AC.

Re: Micro heaters cut 87% off my electric heat bill

#57

Post by im3w1l » Thu, Jul 31, 2014, 12:05 AM UTC

raverbashing wrote: post #5

Yes Most people want "summer inside the house" which is absurdly wasteful Of course, it sucks when changing clothes or taking a shower, but there are ways of heating locally.

Imagine a radiator you turn on for those few minutes. Could probably keep you warm using a lot less energy than it would take to heat the bathroom air and walls.

Re: Micro heaters cut 87% off my electric heat bill

#58

Post by _delirium » Thu, Jul 31, 2014, 12:06 AM UTC

Swizec wrote: post #6

This is where I really prefer the European model[1] - you heat the whole house with hot water. You make hot water with cheap natural gas. If you're lucky enough, you can even use geothermal. Then you use insulation. This especially is something that feels nobody in the US has heard of. At least in California. As a result, your radiators are turned down to 2 out of 10 all day (heating turns off automatically overnight…

> You make hot water with cheap natural gas. If you're lucky enough, you can even use geothermal.

In Denmark it's getting pretty common to produce it via trash incinerators. They produce a kind of heat that is apparently that not great for electricity generation, but pretty good for district-heat production. So much so that the price of unsorted municipal garbage in both Denmark and Sweden has risen in the past few years, because it has become a valuable energy source.

Re: Micro heaters cut 87% off my electric heat bill

#59

Post by _delirium » Thu, Jul 31, 2014, 12:09 AM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #56

curun1r wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then you use insulation. This especially is something that feels nobody in the US has heard of. At least in California. In defense of Californians, most of us rarely, if ever, turn on a heater and most homes here don't have AC. Our heating and cooling costs are a small fraction of those of you who live in places that have seasons.

> > Then you use insulation. This especially is something that feels nobody in the US has heard of. At least in California. There's lots of poorly insulated homes in California, either because they are old or cheaply-made, or because they are in places that have milder weather where it is less necessary. But there are also lots of well-insulated homes in California. > In defense of Californians, most of us rarely, if…

I don't think it's only the Bay Area. I've lived in parts of California that between them add up to about 70% of California's population, and not one of them had A/C prevalent, from San Bernardino County to Santa Cruz County.

Re: Micro heaters cut 87% off my electric heat bill

#60

Post by dredmorbius » Thu, Jul 31, 2014, 12:10 AM UTC

curun1r wrote: post #43

Swizec wrote: post #6

This is where I really prefer the European model[1] - you heat the whole house with hot water. You make hot water with cheap natural gas. If you're lucky enough, you can even use geothermal. Then you use insulation. This especially is something that feels nobody in the US has heard of. At least in California. As a result, your radiators are turned down to 2 out of 10 all day (heating turns off automatically overnight…

> Then you use insulation. This especially is something that feels nobody in the US has heard of. At least in California. In defense of Californians, most of us rarely, if ever, turn on a heater and most homes here don't have AC. Our heating and cooling costs are a small fraction of those of you who live in places that have seasons.

"most homes here don't have AC."

That really depends on where in the state you are. Coastal cities, generally, more so. Inland, even within the SF Bay Area or Los Angeles, you'll find a lot of AC, and in the Central Valley it's a huge determinant of load and peak load.