The List of N Things • Hacker News Board

Re: The List of N Things

#61

Post by mechanical_fish » Tue, Sep 08, 2009, 12:12 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #10

Lists are just writing devices. There are lots of other writing devices, and they all serve the same purpose: as scaffolding for building up ideas and communicating effectively. Some of the popular ones: * Socratic dialog (ie, the openings of G.E.B. chapters) * Extended metaphor (ie, mechanical_fish's zoo comment) * Anthopomorphism (ie, Gruber's adventures of the washed-up brushed metal theme) * F.A.Q. * Narrative (i…

As PG points out, lists are an especially low-risk literary device.

Socratic dialogue requires you to write dialogue, which only some people have the ear for. It can also tend to be long-winded and indirect, like real dialogue.

Extended metaphors, like cantilevered structures, will eventually break. Usually sooner rather than later. When I started writing the zoo comment, I had no idea the damn thing was going to sustain itself across a whole essay; I figured it would reach a length of two sentences and then need to be edited down to one or zero, which is the fate of most newborn metaphors.

Anthropomorphism is another form of extended metaphor, except that it is especially likely to overreach badly. You can end up making big logical mistakes, because the human brain is very forgiving of anything that lets it exercise its built-in machinery for understanding humans. We love that. So history is rife with epic-level anthrocentric fallacies that lasted for hundreds or thousands of years. (How can the Earth be so much older than humans? How can life have been designed, if not by an independent consciousness that likes to build things? Of course the sun orbits us, and not the other way around!)

The typical FAQ is terribly disorganized and unbalanced, even more so than the list. (To achieve a FAQ that is actually readable, you must carefully compose your FAQ. Do not make the natural mistake of thinking that throwing all your FAQs into a pile will produce a readable FAQ. ;)

And, while narratives work well, only a tiny percentage of anecdotes are of any use as entertainment:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7KQ4vkiNUk&feature=relat...

[This link is to anecdote professional Ira Glass. I recommend watching the whole series on YouTube but do not miss segment three:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hidvElQ0xE&feature=relat...

which is not exactly on topic but is too excellent not to plug.]

Re: The List of N Things

#62

Post by JBiserkov » Tue, Sep 08, 2009, 12:54 PM UTC

How to make a list of n elements?

  (defun list-of (n elt)
    (if (zerop n)
        nil
        (cons elt (list-of (- n 1) elt))))

ANSI Common Lisp, Paul Graham, page 38

1996 by Prentice Hall

Re: The List of N Things

#63

Post by movix » Tue, Sep 08, 2009, 1:20 PM UTC

jokull wrote: post #20

pingswept wrote: post #6

I don't know-- I've eaten some pretty bad cheeseburgers at good restaurants.

I live in London and these Brits cannot make an honest, decent hamburger. The good ones are ones in fancy dress. The simple ones are dry meatballs of a pale sickly color. They've got a nice sandwich chain called Pret a Manger that make consistently good food however. And a very strong café americano.

Timeline from live chicken to Pret a Manger Chicken Wrap? Live, dead, cooked, chopped, wrapped = 55 minutes

Re: The List of N Things

#64

Post by RyanMcGreal » Tue, Sep 08, 2009, 2:49 PM UTC

zackattack wrote: post #52

izaidi wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why use four characters when you can use three?

He also recently used "orthogonal" in an essay when it really wasn't the best word choice. When given the option to maximize eloquence, the author favors impressing the reader with his technical know-how, sacrificing being articulate for upping his nerd cred. Possibly a smart move for communicating with the HN community and securing his status as leader. A political thing. I often find myself talking more nerdy than…

My personal favourite such use is here:

"It was so clearly a choice of doing good work xor being an insider that I was forced to see the distinction."

http://www.paulgraham.com/copy.html

Re: The List of N Things

#65

Post by RyanMcGreal » Tue, Sep 08, 2009, 2:52 PM UTC

mechanical_fish wrote: post #61

tptacek wrote: post #10

Lists are just writing devices. There are lots of other writing devices, and they all serve the same purpose: as scaffolding for building up ideas and communicating effectively. Some of the popular ones: * Socratic dialog (ie, the openings of G.E.B. chapters) * Extended metaphor (ie, mechanical_fish's zoo comment) * Anthopomorphism (ie, Gruber's adventures of the washed-up brushed metal theme) * F.A.Q. * Narrative (i…

As PG points out, lists are an especially low-risk literary device. Socratic dialogue requires you to write dialogue, which only some people have the ear for. It can also tend to be long-winded and indirect, like real dialogue. Extended metaphors, like cantilevered structures, will eventually break. Usually sooner rather than later. When I started writing the zoo comment, I had no idea the damn thing was going to sus…

>Socratic dialogue requires you to write dialogue, which only some people have the ear for.

A great negative case study for this is Jane Jacobs' second-last book, The Nature of Economies, which was written as a socratic dialogue among, regrettably, a bunch of insufferable hip urban New Yorkers. The ideas she expresses are first-rate (as usual), but the presentation borders on the unreadable.

Re: The List of N Things

#66

Post by jamesbritt » Tue, Sep 08, 2009, 7:25 PM UTC

ankeshk wrote: post #4

I remember Guy Kawasaki saying he tries to follow this list of N things tactic for all his speeches so that people don't have a problem of following him. They won't doze off. Two other quick formats of writing essays: 1. "The secrets of telling a story well are three: i. How to end ii. Where to begin iii. What to leave out." - Roy H. Williams. In that order. Determine the end first. And you can take your readers on t…

"I remember Guy Kawasaki saying he tries to follow this list of N things tactic for all his speeches"

It helps the audience judge about how long something will be going on for. With print, you don't need that, since you can see the length of the piece in advance.

Re: The List of N Things

#67

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Sep 09, 2009, 10:30 PM UTC

fjabre wrote: post #25

tptacek wrote: post #10

Lists are just writing devices. There are lots of other writing devices, and they all serve the same purpose: as scaffolding for building up ideas and communicating effectively. Some of the popular ones: * Socratic dialog (ie, the openings of G.E.B. chapters) * Extended metaphor (ie, mechanical_fish's zoo comment) * Anthopomorphism (ie, Gruber's adventures of the washed-up brushed metal theme) * F.A.Q. * Narrative (i…

The 3 Reasons I agree with tptacek's statement: 1. It puts everything in perspective. After all, essay is just another one of several devices to convey a point through writing. 2. He clearly states that any one of these devices can be abused. Surely anyone can write a crappy and spam-filled essay with a catchy title just as they can do so with a list. 3. Clearly many people surfing the Internet do have A.D.D. Perhaps…

[deleted]

Re: The List of N Things

#68

Post by junior » Wed, Sep 09, 2009, 10:32 PM UTC

[deleted] wrote: post #67

fjabre wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 3 Reasons I agree with tptacek's statement: 1. It puts everything in perspective. After all, essay is just another one of several devices to convey a point through writing. 2. He clearly states that any one of these devices can be abused. Surely anyone can write a crappy and spam-filled essay with a catchy title just as they can do so with a list. 3. Clearly many people surfing the Internet do have A.D.D. Perhaps…

[deleted]

hackeado xmafia