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Why the Paleo Diet Is Half-Baked (2013)

scientificamerican.com

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Re: Why the Paleo Diet Is Half-Baked (2013)

#11

Post by js2 »

lipoicacid wrote: post #7
js2 wrote: post #3

I crossfit, a community that is associated with the paleo diet. No one interprets paleo literally. It's just a buzz word that generally means eat less processed foods, more fruits, vegetables, lean meats, and healthy fats, and limit grains. Some folks do cleanse diets first. I've seen folks loose dozens to hundreds of pounds. For many, this is the first time they've actually paid attention to what they are eating. An…

Are you including indigestible carbs (fiber) as part of natural whole grain sources, fruits (pectin), oats (soluble fibers) as part of your "not particularly satiating" carbs? I spent 6 months on paleo, 12 months on keto, and 6 months cyclical keto. I have found that complex carbs have helped my training and weight loss far more than restricting carbs in general. It seems that proper carb sources are just as satiatin…

I don't eat red meat but maybe a few times a year. My protein is mostly from fish, eggs, greek yogurt, fowl, and protein powder/bars sparingly.

I don't find carbs in any form particularly satiating. Unless I have protein and/or fat with a meal, I'm hungry quickly after. So steel cut oats, not satiating on their own. But if I add say crushed walnuts to the oats and have a couple eggs or greek yogurt too, I fine almost till dinner. The more refined the carbs, the worse it is for me.

Re: Why the Paleo Diet Is Half-Baked (2013)

#12

Post by jljljl »

kristiandupont wrote: post #4

This strawman is the most common way of "debunking" the paleo diet. It's like saying that vegetarians should only ever eat vegetables. The article even sort of acknowledges that: Some Paleo dieters emphasize that they never believed in one true caveman lifestyle or diet and that—in the fashion of Sisson's Blueprint—they use our evolutionary past to form guidelines, not scripture. That strategy seems reasonably solid…

The point is that even the guidelines are murky, and that it isn't clear what foods our "evolutionary past" intended us to eat. The best that the evidence seems to suggest is that diets varied widely in early humans.

So basing your diet, even loosely, off a false or unclear understanding of the diets of early hunter gatherers, is probably a worse strategy than following more contemporary research on the health benefits of different dietary strategies.

Re: Why the Paleo Diet Is Half-Baked (2013)

#13

Post by yetanotherone »

All of this highlights the need for more funding towards nutrition science. It's absurdly hard to do this stuff (e.g., controlling what people eat for a year), so it's expensive. But given how expensive things like diabetes are, I think it'd be societally efficient to drop $100M or something on few grand randomized controlled experiments.

This[1] is the closest thing I'm aware of. You'd sorta hope governments would make this kind of thing a priority.

[1] http://nusi.org/the-science/current-science-in-progress/#.U9...

Re: Why the Paleo Diet Is Half-Baked (2013)

#14

Post by jkldotio »

IvyMike wrote: post #2

I am convinced that most weight-loss diets that succeed (even if only for a time) work because they limit you to a subset of foodstuffs. The diets substitute "have willpower to eat less of everything you already eat" (which doesn't work for most people) with "limit yourself to this palette of food that you will get bored of very quickly", which people seem to do better at.

I have suspected this for a long time as well; by requiring attention and planning to get the appropriate items from the limited set permitted by the diet the real goal, making an evaluation each time you eat, is achieved.

I suspect people cycle through different palettes/diets until they find one that suits their personal tastes, or until some other stars align in their life and motivation such that their next attempt was going to succeed anyway. People then become cargo cult evangelists for that particular diet. That's without even looking at some of the people who profit from diet fads and promote them with various techniques.

That's all conjectural on my part though, perhaps one day a researcher that models memes with techniques from epidemiology will get an appropriate data set to seriously investigate.

Re: Why the Paleo Diet Is Half-Baked (2013)

#15

Post by scythe »

jljljl wrote: post #12
kristiandupont wrote: post #4

This strawman is the most common way of "debunking" the paleo diet. It's like saying that vegetarians should only ever eat vegetables. The article even sort of acknowledges that: Some Paleo dieters emphasize that they never believed in one true caveman lifestyle or diet and that—in the fashion of Sisson's Blueprint—they use our evolutionary past to form guidelines, not scripture. That strategy seems reasonably solid…

The point is that even the guidelines are murky, and that it isn't clear what foods our "evolutionary past" intended us to eat. The best that the evidence seems to suggest is that diets varied widely in early humans. So basing your diet, even loosely, off a false or unclear understanding of the diets of early hunter gatherers, is probably a worse strategy than following more contemporary research on the health benefi…

>is probably a worse strategy than following more contemporary research on the health benefits of different dietary strategies.

You've implicitly assumed that the strategy is not also informed by contemporary research, but the particular framework being criticized, that of Mark Sisson, makes extensive reference to contemporary research.

In fact, a reader of Mark's Daily Apple is probably linked to more peer-reviewed articles than a reader of, say, Scientific American. Consider e.g.:

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/the-definitive-guide-to-resis...

Re: Why the Paleo Diet Is Half-Baked (2013)

#16

Post by lazyant »

js2 wrote: post #3

I crossfit, a community that is associated with the paleo diet. No one interprets paleo literally. It's just a buzz word that generally means eat less processed foods, more fruits, vegetables, lean meats, and healthy fats, and limit grains. Some folks do cleanse diets first. I've seen folks loose dozens to hundreds of pounds. For many, this is the first time they've actually paid attention to what they are eating. An…

why limit grains? (honest question)

Re: Why the Paleo Diet Is Half-Baked (2013)

#17

Post by js2 »

lazyant wrote: post #16
js2 wrote: post #3

I crossfit, a community that is associated with the paleo diet. No one interprets paleo literally. It's just a buzz word that generally means eat less processed foods, more fruits, vegetables, lean meats, and healthy fats, and limit grains. Some folks do cleanse diets first. I've seen folks loose dozens to hundreds of pounds. For many, this is the first time they've actually paid attention to what they are eating. An…

why limit grains? (honest question)

Because they are energy dense and not particularly satiating. A slice of bread can be 75-100 calories, a bagel 200-250 calories, a bowl of pasta 400 calories. I like to translate my calories to miles. A mile walked or run burns ~ 100 calories. So that bagel is 2 miles, that bowl of pasta 4 miles.

I'd rather eat fruits and vegetables, yogurt, cottage cheese, eggs, fish, etc.

To be clear, I don't avoid grains entirely. I'll have a slice of toast with 3 eggs at breakfast, or put homemade granola in my yogurt, etc. I eat rice with sushi or chicken tikka. Challah is one of my great weaknesses. It's just that grains are so readily available and easy to eat too much of, so I limit them when I can.

Re: Why the Paleo Diet Is Half-Baked (2013)

#18

Post by noodle »

js2 wrote: post #3

I crossfit, a community that is associated with the paleo diet. No one interprets paleo literally. It's just a buzz word that generally means eat less processed foods, more fruits, vegetables, lean meats, and healthy fats, and limit grains. Some folks do cleanse diets first. I've seen folks loose dozens to hundreds of pounds. For many, this is the first time they've actually paid attention to what they are eating. An…

> No one interprets paleo literally

I have done crossfit in the past and have many friends who still actively participate. The majority of them do take paleo literally.

The reality is, I think, that it varies from box to box, community to community.

Re: Why the Paleo Diet Is Half-Baked (2013)

#19

Post by marcus_holmes »

jljljl wrote: post #12
kristiandupont wrote: post #4

This strawman is the most common way of "debunking" the paleo diet. It's like saying that vegetarians should only ever eat vegetables. The article even sort of acknowledges that: Some Paleo dieters emphasize that they never believed in one true caveman lifestyle or diet and that—in the fashion of Sisson's Blueprint—they use our evolutionary past to form guidelines, not scripture. That strategy seems reasonably solid…

The point is that even the guidelines are murky, and that it isn't clear what foods our "evolutionary past" intended us to eat. The best that the evidence seems to suggest is that diets varied widely in early humans. So basing your diet, even loosely, off a false or unclear understanding of the diets of early hunter gatherers, is probably a worse strategy than following more contemporary research on the health benefi…

I have tried three different strategies so far (dealing with type 2 diabetes gets you to try new things): - Hacker's diet calorie control - The recommended "dealing with diabetes" diet from the nutritionist based around the standard food pyramid (plenty of fruit and veg, less fats) - The paleo diet. Well, something like it. No dairy or bread, avoid sugars, eat as much meat, nuts, green veg and fat as I like.

I've easily had the best results with the least effort from the paleo diet. My blood sugar is down, I've lost weight and gained muscle, and feel fitter and more flexible.

It's not "Science", but I believe evidence drawn from experimentation trumps "studies" that can't be replicated, don't publish their negative results, and munge their data before publishing.

Re: Why the Paleo Diet Is Half-Baked (2013)

#20

Post by jljljl »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #19
jljljl wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that even the guidelines are murky, and that it isn't clear what foods our "evolutionary past" intended us to eat. The best that the evidence seems to suggest is that diets varied widely in early humans. So basing your diet, even loosely, off a false or unclear understanding of the diets of early hunter gatherers, is probably a worse strategy than following more contemporary research on the health benefi…

I have tried three different strategies so far (dealing with type 2 diabetes gets you to try new things): - Hacker's diet calorie control - The recommended "dealing with diabetes" diet from the nutritionist based around the standard food pyramid (plenty of fruit and veg, less fats) - The paleo diet. Well, something like it. No dairy or bread, avoid sugars, eat as much meat, nuts, green veg and fat as I like. I've eas…

Results from one person experimenting cannot trump studies, or even natural experiments that look at a wide cross section of individuals, at least not in terms of applicability to the wider population.

That said, I'm glad you found something that works well for you, and that provides such positive results

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