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The Suburbs Will Die: One Man's Fight to Fix the American Dream

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Re: The Suburbs Will Die: One Man's Fight to Fix the American Dream

#11

Post by cwal37 »

CalRobert wrote: post #4

Unfortunately if you don't want to live in an environment like the one this person helped build, it seems necessary to be either extremely rich or comfortable with high crime rates, or willing to leave the country entirely.

That's not really accurate. Suburbs have a lower overall amount of crime, but you need to think about relative rates of crime based on the number of people living in an area.

Here's a simple study that discusses a lot of that: http://proceedings.esri.com/library/userconf/proc00/professi...

Personally, I found it pretty easy to live in two different college towns (less than 100k pop), not own a car, and enjoy relatively walkable areas. Then I moved to TN for work and got laughs in the interview when I asked about public transportation. I imagine the suburban reflex kicks in strongly for some people once they have a kid or two.

Re: The Suburbs Will Die: One Man's Fight to Fix the American Dream

#13

Post by trevorgerhardt »

zavulon wrote: post #12
ghouse wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quit subsidizing sprawl?

Right, I got that part.. but then what? Small towns die out, and everyone moves to the big city?

Take the city model to the suburbs. You don't need more than 100k people to have dense, pedestrian focused development.

Re: The Suburbs Will Die: One Man's Fight to Fix the American Dream

#14

Post by modoc »

ufmace wrote: post #9

My skepticism of suburbs has mostly been about how the long distance and personal car dependence they create tends to isolate people and households. Build a suburban "gated community" for safety, give everyone a huge lawn that they're obligated to constantly maintain, don't allow any commercial buildings in because they're considered ugly, and you get an environment where it's pretty tough to get anywhere without a c…

Your vision of a suburb has very little to do with the reality of my suburban existence. It's like someone from the country talking about the horribly dangerous ugly city with its filthy air, roving gangs shooting strangers, and huge rats running in the streets.

I'm not saying suburbs are perfect, but you've basically thrown up a stack of strawmen here.

Re: The Suburbs Will Die: One Man's Fight to Fix the American Dream

#15

Post by TheIronYuppie »

CalRobert wrote: post #4

Unfortunately if you don't want to live in an environment like the one this person helped build, it seems necessary to be either extremely rich or comfortable with high crime rates, or willing to leave the country entirely.

I'm not sure I follow your middle point. Per capita, density does not necessarily equal worse crime rates.

E.g. NYC (Dense - http://www.city-data.com/city/New-York-New-York.html) vs. Houston (Sprawl - http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Houston-Texas.html)

Re: The Suburbs Will Die: One Man's Fight to Fix the American Dream

#16

Post by ch4s3 »

zavulon wrote: post #12
ghouse wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quit subsidizing sprawl?

Right, I got that part.. but then what? Small towns die out, and everyone moves to the big city?

Small towns can be fine if they have a compact walkable downtown, and are suitably close to job centers. Rural small towns and old rust belt towns are likely to die slow deaths regardless.

Re: The Suburbs Will Die: One Man's Fight to Fix the American Dream

#17

Post by enjo »

cwal37 wrote: post #11
CalRobert wrote: post #4

Unfortunately if you don't want to live in an environment like the one this person helped build, it seems necessary to be either extremely rich or comfortable with high crime rates, or willing to leave the country entirely.

That's not really accurate. Suburbs have a lower overall amount of crime, but you need to think about relative rates of crime based on the number of people living in an area. Here's a simple study that discusses a lot of that: http://proceedings.esri.com/library/userconf/proc00/professi... Personally, I found it pretty easy to live in two different college towns (less than 100k pop), not own a car, and enjoy relative…

Crime rates and school rankings are the two places where the general populations inability to understand statistics really come home to roost.

Re: The Suburbs Will Die: One Man's Fight to Fix the American Dream

#18

Post by pnathan »

modoc wrote: post #14
ufmace wrote: post #9

My skepticism of suburbs has mostly been about how the long distance and personal car dependence they create tends to isolate people and households. Build a suburban "gated community" for safety, give everyone a huge lawn that they're obligated to constantly maintain, don't allow any commercial buildings in because they're considered ugly, and you get an environment where it's pretty tough to get anywhere without a c…

Your vision of a suburb has very little to do with the reality of my suburban existence. It's like someone from the country talking about the horribly dangerous ugly city with its filthy air, roving gangs shooting strangers, and huge rats running in the streets. I'm not saying suburbs are perfect, but you've basically thrown up a stack of strawmen here.

IME of suburbia, the grandparent's comment is spot-on.

I live in a city, and it's kind of ugly, kind of dangerous in many places, there are random shootings of strangers. The air, thankfully, is good. The rats in the streets would be kind of awesome! :)

Re: The Suburbs Will Die: One Man's Fight to Fix the American Dream

#19

Post by ch4s3 »

cwal37 wrote: post #11
CalRobert wrote: post #4

Unfortunately if you don't want to live in an environment like the one this person helped build, it seems necessary to be either extremely rich or comfortable with high crime rates, or willing to leave the country entirely.

That's not really accurate. Suburbs have a lower overall amount of crime, but you need to think about relative rates of crime based on the number of people living in an area. Here's a simple study that discusses a lot of that: http://proceedings.esri.com/library/userconf/proc00/professi... Personally, I found it pretty easy to live in two different college towns (less than 100k pop), not own a car, and enjoy relative…

@enjo Especially since the best marker for performance in school is parent involvement, if you're a really involved parent the school your child is in ends up having a lot less effect than people think.

Re: The Suburbs Will Die: One Man's Fight to Fix the American Dream

#20

Post by altcognito »

ufmace wrote: post #9

My skepticism of suburbs has mostly been about how the long distance and personal car dependence they create tends to isolate people and households. Build a suburban "gated community" for safety, give everyone a huge lawn that they're obligated to constantly maintain, don't allow any commercial buildings in because they're considered ugly, and you get an environment where it's pretty tough to get anywhere without a c…

> and you get a neighborhood where everyone seems actively discouraged from knowing anything about their neighbors

This is completely unfair. I can tell you that from living in my suburban home over the past 10 years that over time I have come to know every single person who lives on my street. You have children that play together, that goto school together (and you may serve on the PTO together with those same neighbors), you have trees that you plant, fences that are built together. You see each other at garage sales. If you have an HOA, you likely maintain a common area together (maybe a pool)

On the other hand, there are those who complain how "up in everybody's business" the neighbors are.

All I can say is that everywhere is different, perspective is everything. I've live in major cities and talked to people who in major cities and "knowing your neighbors" is more reflective of who your neighbors are than it is of the geographical layout. (I also have neighbors who I have little interaction with, and that's just fine)

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