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How a bug in Dropbox permanently deleted my 8000 photos

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Re: How a bug in Dropbox permanently deleted my 8000 photos

#31

Post by yoda_sl »

As many others mentioned already "sync is not backup". If you really want true backup then on a Mac I will suggest to have a setup like: 1- local backup for quick recovery with Time Machine 2- remote backup with a true backup solution like CrashPlan (or similar)

I personally have such setup with a local one with my Time Machine, and having CrashPlan running all the time, it did save me a couple times when after many weeks I deleted a wrong file or folder... Got everything back without problem.

If you don't have a Time Capsule, then you can always consider an alternative with just a smaller subset of what you want to archive by using a JetDrive by Transcend. I recently got a 128GB JetDrive and it is my local destination for my MBP for TimeMachine... Yes 128GB is not enough but knowing that CrashPlan is constantly running make me comfortable enough with that setup.

Re: How a bug in Dropbox permanently deleted my 8000 photos

#32

Post by pierreio »

> "you should backup"

What about in 10, 20 years? Photo libraries will keep inflating. Local storage will not. As of now I backup from a SSD Mac. What happens when I don't have a computer anymore?

Interestingly, people don't value "bits" or information. We value moments and emotions and work and art. There's no successful current consumer business model for people to store and backup photos (Backblaze is mainly prosumer).

And so aren't social networks the real backups by now? The redundancy of publishing on multiple services means some photos will stick and the rest will fade, somehow like former printed pictures I guess. Publish it or lose it?

Re: How a bug in Dropbox permanently deleted my 8000 photos

#33

Post by 01Michael10 »

gabemart wrote: post #13

I think this bug should be considered completely separately from how unwise it is to use a cloud service as the sole storage of important files. Regardless of the circumstances, losing user files against the wishes of the user is the absolute worst thing a cloud backup provider can do . Even for files that are deleted intentionally and unambiguously by the user, I'm astonished that Dropbox actually deletes the files…

"I think this bug should be considered completely separately from how unwise it is to use a cloud service as the sole storage of important files."

It is unwise to use anything as the sole storage of important files. Personally, I think cloud backup is safer then one backing up files to a DVD or tape backup but I just won't keep personal files on any cloud service.

Never just have one point of failure!

Re: How a bug in Dropbox permanently deleted my 8000 photos

#34

Post by gabemart »

icebraining wrote: post #21
gabemart wrote: post #13

I think this bug should be considered completely separately from how unwise it is to use a cloud service as the sole storage of important files. Regardless of the circumstances, losing user files against the wishes of the user is the absolute worst thing a cloud backup provider can do . Even for files that are deleted intentionally and unambiguously by the user, I'm astonished that Dropbox actually deletes the files…

I would expect them to keep the files for some multiple of the publicly-stated restore deadline where the multiple >= 2, if for no other reason than as a goodwill generator. On the other hand, keeping copies of the user's data after you say you've deleted it doesn't sound too ethical to me. I don't expect immediate purging, but I also don't expect potentially sensitive files to linger for months after they were suppo…

> On the other hand, keeping copies of the user's data after you say you've deleted it doesn't sound too ethical to me. I don't expect immediate purging, but I also don't expect potentially sensitive files to linger for months after they were supposed to be deleted.

This is a fair concern, but I think the issue of recovering files is much more important than the issue of retention of deleted files to the huge majority of the Dropbox user base. I imagine most privacy-conscious users would use an online sync service that offers encryption by default, etc.

Re: How a bug in Dropbox permanently deleted my 8000 photos

#35

Post by walterbell »

pierreio wrote: post #32

> "you should backup" What about in 10, 20 years? Photo libraries will keep inflating. Local storage will not. As of now I backup from a SSD Mac. What happens when I don't have a computer anymore? Interestingly, people don't value "bits" or information. We value moments and emotions and work and art. There's no successful current consumer business model for people to store and backup photos (Backblaze is mainly prosu…

> Local storage will not.

External backup drives continue to increase in size at a falling cost per GB.

It is cheaper and lower latency to store/retrieve a large amount of data locally than remotely, unless you believe that the current glut of "near-free cloud storage" will continue indefinitely. Market cycles suggest otherwise.

> Publish it or lose it

Why do social networks store your photos "for free"?

Re: How a bug in Dropbox permanently deleted my 8000 photos

#37

Post by rayiner »

The bug in question:

> From all this information it seems that Dropbox client first deletes files locally before it informs the server about the new selective sync settings. Consequently, if the client crashes or is killed before the server is contacted, the files remain deleted without any trace. After the client restarts again, it only sees there are some files missing and syncs this new state with the server.

It concerns me that the top several comments are some variation of "you shouldn't trust the cloud with your data." How did software services become so totally insulated from the expectations we have of every other service that holds on to our valuable property?

Re: How a bug in Dropbox permanently deleted my 8000 photos

#38

Post by gabemart »

egypturnash wrote: post #19

Sync is not backup. Sync is not backup. Sync is not backup. My strategy: a big external drive used for Time Machine, and a subscription to Backblaze. Both of these are all about retaining multiple versions, recovering from accidental deletion, and continuously backing up in the background. Dropbox is about syncing stuff between computers.

Dropbox keeps deleted files and previous versions of files for 30 days. With Packrat, a free feature for all paid accounts, Dropbox keeps deleted files for the lifetime of the account.

How is Dropbox not a backup provider? It may not be a very good backup provider, depending on your point of view, but it clearly markets itself as a backup provider ("your stuff is always safe in Dropbox and can be restored in a snap"), is used by its users as a backup provider, and has the features of a backup provider.

Re: How a bug in Dropbox permanently deleted my 8000 photos

#39

Post by TheLoneWolfling »

bruceboughton wrote: post #25
egypturnash wrote: post #19

Sync is not backup. Sync is not backup. Sync is not backup. My strategy: a big external drive used for Time Machine, and a subscription to Backblaze. Both of these are all about retaining multiple versions, recovering from accidental deletion, and continuously backing up in the background. Dropbox is about syncing stuff between computers.

I too am a Backblaze customer but beware: backups of deleted files are deleted after 30 days.

Your definition of backup...

Re: How a bug in Dropbox permanently deleted my 8000 photos

#40

Post by kalleboo »

paulmalenke wrote: post #20
petercooper wrote: post #6

If you are using Dropbox as a sole backup of your files, think again. Simplify to If you only have a sole backup, think again. Points 4 and 5 should be you always have more than one backup of important material and at least one backup should be on physical media that you own.

Also, in the case of removing it from your computer and only storing it on the "backup". It is not really a backup if it only exists in one location.

This this this. The parable I've heard is that even two locations isn't a backup.
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