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Don't Trust Google (2002)

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Re: Don't Trust Google (2002)

#71
Got an android tablet for 94 year-old grandma a week ago. To simplify her experience I turned off most services she doesn't need. Every time I visit, Google has hoodwinked her into switching something on. Location services, Google+, Google now. She only wants mail and pics. Yesterday I got her an iPad because Apple just makes money on the devices and doesn't spin their BS web of ad-based services at grandma.

From an ex Google absolute fanboy writing this on a Nexus. They used to be an example of open trustworthy behaviour. Now they're just another company to me. The ultimate 'you're the product' company at that, and I dislike that phrase.

Re: Don't Trust Google (2002)

#72
post #2

And 14 years later there still "is no evidence or even reason to suspect that Google is not being an honest broker. The searches give good results, the rankings seem fair, the service remains free, and we haven’t heard of anyone being arrested for running a dodgy query." So while the author is right about potential dangers mentioned in the penultimate paragraph, it's been more than a decade and those fears haven't re…

Here's a few ways the post became true: Tracking Google Apps for Education students and even paid Google Apps for Business emails to build ad profiles, making misleading statement to the public that they're not doing so, and then when it finally came to statements to federal court, lacking the dare to continue lying and finally confessing the truth and then claiming the consumer Gmail policy applied to Apps for Educa…

> lacking the dare to continue lying and finally confessing the truth

This seems like a really strange argument to me.

Re: Don't Trust Google (2002)

#73

Got an android tablet for 94 year-old grandma a week ago. To simplify her experience I turned off most services she doesn't need. Every time I visit, Google has hoodwinked her into switching something on. Location services, Google+, Google now. She only wants mail and pics. Yesterday I got her an iPad because Apple just makes money on the devices and doesn't spin their BS web of ad-based services at grandma. From an…

I'm not going to comment on the horrifying way you seem to throw money around...

I am however going to comment on the absurdity of how you seem to protest this whole situation. If she only wants mail and pics, why not get rid of all the other junk that comes pre-installed and put in a generic mail and a generic pics app?

Do you think the situation will be any better on ipad, which is running on a platform that is twenty times as closed as android?

Re: Don't Trust Google (2002)

#74

Got an android tablet for 94 year-old grandma a week ago. To simplify her experience I turned off most services she doesn't need. Every time I visit, Google has hoodwinked her into switching something on. Location services, Google+, Google now. She only wants mail and pics. Yesterday I got her an iPad because Apple just makes money on the devices and doesn't spin their BS web of ad-based services at grandma. From an…

I'm not going to comment on the horrifying way you seem to throw money around... I am however going to comment on the absurdity of how you seem to protest this whole situation. If she only wants mail and pics, why not get rid of all the other junk that comes pre-installed and put in a generic mail and a generic pics app? Do you think the situation will be any better on ipad, which is running on a platform that is twe…

Luckily I had backup plans for the Android, in case she didn't want to use it :) It was a test machine to see if she could even begin to find it useful, and I assumed it'd probably be good enough because hey, they're all the same these days.

That's the reason why I chose Android in the first place, assuming I could set the launcher and just make it dead-simple. I did a week or two of research looking into apps that might suit an old-timer. Big Launcher is great, but doesn't fix Skype because Skype's UI is a nightmare (contacts + favorites + recent? really? she has about four people she'd Skype. Why are the video/etc buttons so tiny? Yes obviously that issue will be on iPad as well.) Tried a couple photos apps to see which was best. Tried a couple mail apps. Get PPS from daughter, have to find tiny buttons to move to next slide of cat, rather than just swiping, so app closes and she misses half the pics. I've found websites dedicated to the elderly but none that seem to clear the whole mess up. While trying to do this, I'm listening to her talking to Google because she clicking something and Google says "Talk now", so she's telling it she can't find her email. They put in a quad-core processor so battery dies in no time. The Google tells me the mini has better battery life.

Home button disappears sometimes (e.g. camera, or Solitaire game) and replaced by tiny dot (so you want to go home but can't, or at least can't find it). iPad, it's always there - the physical round thing. Sometimes she touches the home/back buttons when typing (closes game or mail, very surprised - so now you don't want to go home but do), and iPad doesn't have soft buttons below the space bar. Send button is very close to the menu on Android. On iPad there are only two buttons and they're far from each other. Just above the home button Google has the "all apps" button, which she just doesn't need front-and-center. Back button sometimes does X, sometimes does Y, depending on context. Small USB cable works one-way only, iPad's can be inserted both ways. On this device can't remove the Google search bar near the top (I think?) and she's not quite ready for the web yet. Or Google's voice thing that didn't help her. At some point I need to take her off Google+ because she doesn't need any alerts that some random person is now following her. That shit is not in the user's best interests, it's in Google's. Then she's building up a great set of drafts because she'll edit and hit the wrong thing and it'll be gone, whereas the iPad app asks "Delete Draft? Save Draft?" when you click cancel. AFAIKT you can only hit "Send", "Cancel" or the hardware home button while writing a mail. Nothing else goes wrong.

Please don't assume your ten seconds on the problem has shown me to be an idiot. If you find a perfect setup, please tell me.

Btw her daughter and granddaughter both have iPads which helps the support situation greatly because they know what the button does. And shops currently have specials on the older non-retina, which is fine for her. We'll try it out and if she finds the Android better given her extra week of usage, that's a useful experiment. The money is very secondary compared to finding an experience that makes an old lady happy that she can "write letters to her friends". It's a game changer and she's enjoying it despite frustrations.

Current annoyance is that the toolbar icons on iPad can't grow with the fonts. Yes can use the Zoom but that's a bit crap. Will test it with her.

Re: Don't Trust Google (2002)

#75
post #70
post #2

And 14 years later there still "is no evidence or even reason to suspect that Google is not being an honest broker. The searches give good results, the rankings seem fair, the service remains free, and we haven’t heard of anyone being arrested for running a dodgy query." So while the author is right about potential dangers mentioned in the penultimate paragraph, it's been more than a decade and those fears haven't re…

and weirdly enough google services that compete with eg yelp are almost always at the top! sure couldn't be them using their near-monopoly in search to juice their other businesses, could it?

Antitrust lawsuits are a powerful deterrent, otherwise they surely would have gone ahead.

Re: Don't Trust Google (2002)

#76
post #68
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have an android phone you may want to check out your location history: https://maps.google.com/locationhistory/b/0 Certainly far better than 100 meters in my case.

This is by far one of the creepiest things I've seen.

Also one of the most useful.

Funny thing though - Google could easily blow all those Endomondo et al. "share my running" apps out of the water by just allowing to publicly share a time-delimited subset of your location history...

Re: Don't Trust Google (2002)

#77
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> filtering / censorship of results Could you please elaborate on this one?

See any given DMCA takedown request for Google to filter search results. There's more than 1.5m to look through. https://chillingeffects.org/notice.cgi

Aside from the fact that Google doesn't have much choice WRT to DMCA and it's the US government fault, there's this funny thing about ChillingEffect that it doesn't really censor that much.

For instance, let me search for "Edge of Tomorrow full movie". At the bottom of the page I can see that some results were removed due to DMCA request. There's a link to the complaint:

http://www.chillingeffects.org/notice.cgi?sID=1802711

Voilà! All the "censored" links enumerated right there (many of them working).

Re: Don't Trust Google (2002)

#78
post #36
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> filtering / censorship of results Could you please elaborate on this one?

Censorshop by Google : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_by_Google In addition to "Right to be forgotten" : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_be_forgotten

Thanks for the Wikipedia link. There are many intersting cases I haven't heard about. But my general impression is that Google is not giving in to censorship requests easily and try to go around them in any way possible. See the DMCA "censored results" that are available one click away at ChillingEffects.

As for "Right to be forgotten", I'm happy to see they're fighting it in whatever way they can.

I'm not saying Google is crystal clear. I just don't see obvious signs of malice that is often attributed to it by people here.

Re: Don't Trust Google (2002)

#79
post #11

"[...] what would you do if Google required you to set up a user account, or enroll in a service [...] so that you could have more ‘personalized’ search results, and the occasional special offer?" Um...

Key word: required.

Re: Don't Trust Google (2002)

#80
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is wrong with HN that simple questions with no obvious agenda are getting downvotes? It's becoming impossible to have even a simple conversation here any more. (sorry, yes, rant ..., and far more deserving of downvotes than the parent)

Not to open up a whole other can of worms here, but I've heard people blame Reddit for an influx of downvote brigade types. Regardless of where they're coming from, I know what you mean. I wish at the very least we'd see more questions or rebuttals or whatever being replied to the posters.

New people (I am one of them as you will see if you go to my page) do not have the ability to down vote. From what I understand, the assumption is that by the time people get to the magic number (currently 500 I believe), they will have been here long enough to understand what to down vote.

I'd say the best recourse we have available is to set showdead to yes. I think it is quite obvious that we are not supposed to down vote things just because we disagree.

I can imagine a system like stack overflow where down voting a top level comment takes away like a tenth of a point from the down voter so if the down voter does nothing but down vote, they'll ultimately lose the privilege.

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