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“Learning to Read” excerpt from The Autobiography of Malcolm X

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Re: “Learning to Read” excerpt from The Autobiography of Malcolm X

#121

Post by moo »

phaus wrote: post #115
moo wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Racism Is any action or attitude, conscious or unconscious, that subordinates an individual or group based on skin colour or race. It can be enacted individually or institutionally. Source: US Civil Rights Commission How is a white person subordinated and controlled in the U.S. based on race to where that white person does not have recourse to the the law, the courts, the police, them finding another job, or just avo…

Nobody said that white people are oppressed. There is some kind of communication breakdown going on because you keep accusing myself and other individuals of claiming that we as white men are afraid of being oppressed. No one under my comment you responded to said that, so please stop acting like we did.

Oppress is a synonym for subordinate as used by the US Civil Rights Commission. So why don't you people calling me a troll use the word oppress for your white condition instead of pulling out magical meanings for racism.

Re: “Learning to Read” excerpt from The Autobiography of Malcolm X

#122

Post by ams6110 »

dannypgh wrote: post #101
serf wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Klansmen and corrupt police from the 60s were racist. So was Malcolm X. "Usually the black racist has been produced by the white racist. In most cases where you see it, it is the reaction to white racism, and if you analyze it closely, it's not really black racism... If we react to white racism with a violent reaction, to me that's not black racism. If you come to put a rope around my neck and I hang you for it, to m…

Your concept of hatred here is what I would describe as self defense. I draw a distinction between racial prejudice - that is, prejudging people based on their race - and racism - which I understand as a social-political-economic system of institutionalized racial oppression. Racial prejudice is an order of magnitude less interesting to me than racial oppression. I am a person of color and I know that people see me a…

White people can and do experience this. I have experienced harassment by blacks because I am white. Never a physical attack, but certainly verbal slurs and taunting. Am I therefore morally justified to have a predjudicial opinion of blacks, because a few anonymous ones have harassed me?

There isn't any institionalized discrimination in the USA any longer. There's a perception of it, but that's largely self reinforced. It's easier on my ego to tell myself I didn't get a job because of my race, rather than because another applicant was more qualified. Yes, there are individual prejudiced/racist people of all races and there always will be. But the institutionalized discrimination is gone.

You say that "people see me and think all sorts of things about me because of things beyond my control." This is just reality. People judge others based on looks, whether they are obese, skinny, muscular, how they dress, whether they have facial hair or wear glasses, whether they are naturally or deliberately bald, how they carry themselves, how they execute a handshake, and any number of other things.

Do you really give an automatic free pass to people who are involved with or support any idiology as long as it's in the cause of self-liberation? One of the other flaws of humans is that they are easily swayed by charasmatic leaders promising freedom from oppression. This often ends up badly for the supporters themselves when their leader turns out to be a tyrant, or for the people the leader set up to be the scapegoats.

Re: “Learning to Read” excerpt from The Autobiography of Malcolm X

#123

Post by [deleted] »

dannypgh wrote: post #101
serf wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Klansmen and corrupt police from the 60s were racist. So was Malcolm X. "Usually the black racist has been produced by the white racist. In most cases where you see it, it is the reaction to white racism, and if you analyze it closely, it's not really black racism... If we react to white racism with a violent reaction, to me that's not black racism. If you come to put a rope around my neck and I hang you for it, to m…

Your concept of hatred here is what I would describe as self defense. I draw a distinction between racial prejudice - that is, prejudging people based on their race - and racism - which I understand as a social-political-economic system of institutionalized racial oppression. Racial prejudice is an order of magnitude less interesting to me than racial oppression. I am a person of color and I know that people see me a…

[deleted]

Re: “Learning to Read” excerpt from The Autobiography of Malcolm X

#124

Post by PhasmaFelis »

tim333 wrote: post #116
_nullandnull_ wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> even that up on Malcolm X Then you shouldn't comment on a subject that you know nothing about. Read his book, listen to his speeches, watch the movie, study the civil rights movements and then comment on what you feel is "iffy".

Maybe but I don't much like " are 'devils' that are superior to " bunk. Some of my family got gassed on account of that kind of stuff not long before Malcolm did his thing and it's still racist even if the speakers skin is dark in colour.

There is a big, big difference between despising a group of people because you hate and fear anyone different from yourself, and despising a group of people because every one of them you've ever met has been directly or indirectly complicit in the oppression of you and everyone you love.

Both viewpoints are wrong, of course. But one of them is rooted in selfishness and evil, and the other is rooted in compassion and justice, perverted by that same evil. One of these can be understood and, perhaps, redirected in a more healthy direction--as it seems Malcolm X may have been in the process of doing. In the real world, you can't just slot everyone into convenient "good" and "evil" cubbyholes.

Re: “Learning to Read” excerpt from The Autobiography of Malcolm X

#125

Post by [deleted] »

tim333 wrote: post #116
_nullandnull_ wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> even that up on Malcolm X Then you shouldn't comment on a subject that you know nothing about. Read his book, listen to his speeches, watch the movie, study the civil rights movements and then comment on what you feel is "iffy".

Maybe but I don't much like " are 'devils' that are superior to " bunk. Some of my family got gassed on account of that kind of stuff not long before Malcolm did his thing and it's still racist even if the speakers skin is dark in colour.

[deleted]

Re: “Learning to Read” excerpt from The Autobiography of Malcolm X

#126

Post by mulligan »

poppysan wrote: post #78
tomjen3 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it still worth reading for somebody who despise the man? Both what he was (a robber) and what he became?

It seems to me, in many cases, hate for Malcolm X is usually centered around his view of militancy as a viable option and his connection to the Nation of Islam. America was established through violent militancy, so I don't understand the first point. Many great conflicts have proven that as a viable solution. The second point makes many people uncomfortable because of the NOI's vocal opinions of the white race as a w…

It should be pointed out that he later left the NOI and became an adherent to mainstream Islam. That was another step in his transformation.

Re: “Learning to Read” excerpt from The Autobiography of Malcolm X

#127

Post by moo »

phaus wrote: post #115
moo wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Racism Is any action or attitude, conscious or unconscious, that subordinates an individual or group based on skin colour or race. It can be enacted individually or institutionally. Source: US Civil Rights Commission How is a white person subordinated and controlled in the U.S. based on race to where that white person does not have recourse to the the law, the courts, the police, them finding another job, or just avo…

Nobody said that white people are oppressed. There is some kind of communication breakdown going on because you keep accusing myself and other individuals of claiming that we as white men are afraid of being oppressed. No one under my comment you responded to said that, so please stop acting like we did.

I'm sorry, to those accusing me of non sequitur because I'm making too large of jumps in logical reasoning. I'll try to remember, "baby steps, baby steps."

Re: “Learning to Read” excerpt from The Autobiography of Malcolm X

#128

Post by moo »

jmaygarden wrote: post #88
moo wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I posted above quoting from Wikipedia: "One view holds that racism is best understood as 'prejudice plus power' because without the support of political or economic power, prejudice would not be able to manifest as a pervasive cultural, institutional or social phenomenon." To scientifically address issues affecting people as a group and not as individuals, anti-racist people would see the benefit of acknowledging…

The references for that Wikipedia statement are both from the last five years. One reference is an article titled "Only white people can be racist." That's hardly an unbiased definition of a much older term. Since 1933, the definition of racism according to Merriam-Webster has been "a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority…

I wouldn't look to 1933 white people to define racism. Yes, the Merriam-Webster definition stinks. Go with the US Civil Rights Commission's definition. They are more researched and sensitive to the issue. Here is the Civil Rights Commission's definition again:

"Is any action or attitude, conscious or unconscious, that subordinates an individual or group based on skin colour or race. It can be enacted individually or institutionally."

In case you think I'm making a non sequitur again, the power component comes from the word "subordinates."

Re: “Learning to Read” excerpt from The Autobiography of Malcolm X

#129

Post by brickmort »

streptomycin wrote: post #7
dwolfson20 wrote: post #2

Everyone should really just read the entire Autobiography. http://www.amazon.com/The-Autobiography-Malcolm-Told-Haley/d... Also, they should spell "Malcolm" correctly. :)

Agreed, Malcolm X is one of the most fascinating individuals in recent history. The movie based on his autobiography is also quite good: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104797/

This is one of my favorite movies of all time. Despite being 3+ hours, There isn't a single boring moment and Spike Lee and Denzel do a superb job at showing the transformation of Malcolm X. Now I have to go check out the autobiography.

Re: “Learning to Read” excerpt from The Autobiography of Malcolm X

#130

Post by sq1020 »

For those who feel uncomfortable with Malcolm's former creed that white people are devils and the black race is superior to all others, please do take note of the fact that he did convert to mainstream Islam near the end of his life thus disavowing any such racism or black supremacy.

As Malcolm so eloquently stated:

"America needs to understand Islam, because this is the one religion that erases from its society the race problem. Throughout my travels in the Muslim world, I have met, talked to, and even eaten with people who in America would have been considered white - but the white attitude was removed from their minds by the religion of Islam. I have never before seen sincere and true brotherhood practiced by all colors together, irrespective of their color."

You see, orthodox Islam, from the very beginning, espoused equality for all races. In fact, race in Islam is an inconsequential matter. Take for example, one of the greatest and most respected companions of the Prophet Muhammad was an African: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilal_Ibn_Rabah

The fact is that the Nation of Islam could not be any further from orthodox Islam. In fact, an orthodox Muslim could never possibly even consider one who believes in the NOI's teachings to be a Muslim. It's a shame that the NOI usurped the name Islam and applied it to its organization which really has absolutely nothing to do with a religion with such an illustrious history and tradition.

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