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“Learning to Read” excerpt from The Autobiography of Malcolm X

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Re: “Learning to Read” excerpt from The Autobiography of Malcolm X

#111

Post by ams6110 »

poppysan wrote: post #78
tomjen3 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it still worth reading for somebody who despise the man? Both what he was (a robber) and what he became?

It seems to me, in many cases, hate for Malcolm X is usually centered around his view of militancy as a viable option and his connection to the Nation of Islam. America was established through violent militancy, so I don't understand the first point. Many great conflicts have proven that as a viable solution. The second point makes many people uncomfortable because of the NOI's vocal opinions of the white race as a w…

Use of violence to establish territory or control, or to attain freedom from oppression is human nature. There is absolutely nothing uniquely American or white about it.

Re: “Learning to Read” excerpt from The Autobiography of Malcolm X

#112

Post by lliwta »

ezy wrote: post #94
jessedhillon wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are fairly quick to erase, forget or forgive the racism of white leaders, but seem to have a harder time doing so for those who oppose the majority's cultural status quo. I fear this has been used historically as a way to marginalize certain voices. Here is a very relevant and well-articulated dissection of the phenomenon you're describing: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/08/beware-...

Uh.. I would say that "well-articulated" is debatable, unless the whole article was meant as satire.

It's possible you under-appreciate the amount of nuance in the underlying theory on fascism which the author is extending. Even though the author avoids mentioning who he's extending, anyone familiar with the literature on fascism knows immediately.

That theory can be dense, and this is by far the best description I've seen which is simultaneously accessible to someone unfamiliar with the literature, and also doesn't compromise on correctness.

It comes down to whether you consider not compromising on correctness important. Unfortunately, the norm in journalism is to tell the most neutered version of the story possible, correctness be damned. You can see this in most science journalism. So when someone puts the effort into a piece like this -- which explains ideas in lay terms but does not throw out correctness to the point of rendering the description of the work meaningless -- it mostly passes unnoticed as "a bit too dense" or "not TEDy enough".

Re: “Learning to Read” excerpt from The Autobiography of Malcolm X

#113

Post by ChuckMcM »

CDRdude wrote: post #71
tomjen3 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good parents will learn not to listen too closely to whether their children are asleep or reading - great parents will make sure the flashlight batteries are periodically replaced.

Not necessarily. Getting enough sleep is incredibly important.

Going hungry for a while to afford a new tool that increases you productivity is a wise investment.

Re: “Learning to Read” excerpt from The Autobiography of Malcolm X

#114

Post by [deleted] »

_nullandnull_ wrote: post #98
tim333 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not tomjen3 or even that up on Malcolm X but note from Wikipedia that when that when with the Nation of Islam he taught that "white people are 'devils' that blacks are superior to whites, and that the demise of the white race is imminent." and that he split with the Nation of Islam over saying the Kennedy assassination was 'chickens coming home to roost' while they sent condolences to the family. All seems a bit…

> even that up on Malcolm X Then you shouldn't comment on a subject that you know nothing about. Read his book, listen to his speeches, watch the movie, study the civil rights movements and then comment on what you feel is "iffy".

[deleted]

Re: “Learning to Read” excerpt from The Autobiography of Malcolm X

#115

Post by phaus »

moo wrote: post #108
jmaygarden wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? What does that have to do with changing the meaning of words?

Racism Is any action or attitude, conscious or unconscious, that subordinates an individual or group based on skin colour or race. It can be enacted individually or institutionally. Source: US Civil Rights Commission How is a white person subordinated and controlled in the U.S. based on race to where that white person does not have recourse to the the law, the courts, the police, them finding another job, or just avo…

Nobody said that white people are oppressed. There is some kind of communication breakdown going on because you keep accusing myself and other individuals of claiming that we as white men are afraid of being oppressed. No one under my comment you responded to said that, so please stop acting like we did.

Re: “Learning to Read” excerpt from The Autobiography of Malcolm X

#116

Post by tim333 »

_nullandnull_ wrote: post #98
tim333 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not tomjen3 or even that up on Malcolm X but note from Wikipedia that when that when with the Nation of Islam he taught that "white people are 'devils' that blacks are superior to whites, and that the demise of the white race is imminent." and that he split with the Nation of Islam over saying the Kennedy assassination was 'chickens coming home to roost' while they sent condolences to the family. All seems a bit…

> even that up on Malcolm X Then you shouldn't comment on a subject that you know nothing about. Read his book, listen to his speeches, watch the movie, study the civil rights movements and then comment on what you feel is "iffy".

Maybe but I don't much like " are 'devils' that are superior to " bunk. Some of my family got gassed on account of that kind of stuff not long before Malcolm did his thing and it's still racist even if the speakers skin is dark in colour.

Re: “Learning to Read” excerpt from The Autobiography of Malcolm X

#117

Post by moo »

aurelian wrote: post #82
moo wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I posted above quoting from Wikipedia: "One view holds that racism is best understood as 'prejudice plus power' because without the support of political or economic power, prejudice would not be able to manifest as a pervasive cultural, institutional or social phenomenon." To scientifically address issues affecting people as a group and not as individuals, anti-racist people would see the benefit of acknowledging…

If you call a person a racist, you're saying 1) that he has certain views about race, and you may also be saying 2) that he takes certain actions in line with those views. Saying someone can't be racist without power is saying "if criteria for definition 2 aren't met, then criteria for definition 1 are not met," which is silly.

Racism Is any action or attitude, conscious or unconscious, that subordinates an individual or group based on skin colour or race. It can be enacted individually or institutionally.

Source: US Civil Rights Commission

How does your point 1 above satisfy the "subordinates an individual" criteria for the definition of racism by the US Civil Rights Commission? It doesn't! For your point 2, to subordinate someone you need power or institutional power backing you up. If you don't have institutional power then the person you're bothering ignores you, tells others and gives you a bad reputation with people, takes you to civil court, calls the police and you are then in jail. The repercussions commensurate with your actions. I argue that your point 2 does not subordinate a white person beyond that of being attacked by an individual or small group of people because you do have recourse by law to defend yourself or have them arrested. The same with any physical assault. The significance of racism is when the person may not have recourse to defend themselves or protection by the law because of racial bias then they are put in a position of subordination and controlled.

Re: “Learning to Read” excerpt from The Autobiography of Malcolm X

#118

Post by wisty »

Avshalom wrote: post #102
wisty wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if you are wrong? You seem to think it's important to believe there is a caste system, which is moving close to Abrahamic Religion territory - you have to believe because (sometimes irrational) faith becomes the very bedrock of your belief system. You you don't believe, you are part of the problem, right?

Well if tehblackbloc's wrong then racism in america is the action of quite a lot of people and the inaction of many more. "fuck those people" still aint exactly unreasonable. Though I'm not sure where you got the idea that it was "important to believe there is a caste system" from what was pretty much a cut and paste definition of racism as used in large chunks of civil rights activism/academia.

From the parent:

> In fact, the caste system of racism is maintained by all of us, in the same way the rest of the status quo is maintained. Mostly just by people being comfortable enough with the status quo that they don't try very hard to change it, and end up reinforcing it without even realising.

By implication, if you're not against there caste system, you're for it. And if you don't believe in the caste system, how can you be against it?

And I don't think it's a helpful definition. It could confuse a stupid person into thinking a dumb celebrity twitting a racial slur is one of the primary causes of inequality.

The "caste system" is entrenched poverty. Visual markers (skin colour) might make it harder to fight the poverty cycle (as it speeds up white flight, and causes some profiling and other discrimination), but the fundamental problem is no longer about race.

The poverty cycle in the US was caused by racism, and is to some extent worsened by racism. But if you want to stop it, you have to fight poverty. Free community college level education to young mothers (and young fathers), remedial literacy (for the kids who need it) in K-6. A few busses, to prevent the segregation due to white flight. That's just IMO, there's probably some things I'm missing.

Fighting the caste system is more or less orthogonal to fighting racism.

Re: “Learning to Read” excerpt from The Autobiography of Malcolm X

#119

Post by moo »

phaus wrote: post #115
moo wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Racism Is any action or attitude, conscious or unconscious, that subordinates an individual or group based on skin colour or race. It can be enacted individually or institutionally. Source: US Civil Rights Commission How is a white person subordinated and controlled in the U.S. based on race to where that white person does not have recourse to the the law, the courts, the police, them finding another job, or just avo…

Nobody said that white people are oppressed. There is some kind of communication breakdown going on because you keep accusing myself and other individuals of claiming that we as white men are afraid of being oppressed. No one under my comment you responded to said that, so please stop acting like we did.

Why are you not seeing the word "subordinates" in the US Civil Rights Commission definition of racism. People are subordinated when the law fails to protect them. The law can fail to protect you due to corruption, bad management, or institutional racism. If you are white and the law fails you I'm saying it is not institutional racism.

Re: “Learning to Read” excerpt from The Autobiography of Malcolm X

#120

Post by jmaygarden »

phaus wrote: post #115
moo wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Racism Is any action or attitude, conscious or unconscious, that subordinates an individual or group based on skin colour or race. It can be enacted individually or institutionally. Source: US Civil Rights Commission How is a white person subordinated and controlled in the U.S. based on race to where that white person does not have recourse to the the law, the courts, the police, them finding another job, or just avo…

Nobody said that white people are oppressed. There is some kind of communication breakdown going on because you keep accusing myself and other individuals of claiming that we as white men are afraid of being oppressed. No one under my comment you responded to said that, so please stop acting like we did.

I think we're being trolled. This moo character is a master of non sequitur.
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