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The Mediocrity Principle

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Re: The Mediocrity Principle

#11

Post by geekam »

lohankin wrote: post #4

What follows immediately from the principle is that humans are not special among species. We are average. Most of the life on Earth is bacteria life. At least half of bacteria must be more intelligent than we are. Instead of pursuing futile AI idea, we need to find a way to cooperate with bacteria, as equal partners, and make use of their talents.

>> we need to find a way to cooperate with bacteria

We already do, unbeknownst to us, for centuries. [1]

OK maybe we did not decided to cooperate it but isn't that the point here.

"All the bacteria living inside you would fill a half-gallon jug; there are 10 times more bacterial cells in your body than human cells"

"The infestation begins at birth: Babies ingest mouthfuls of bacteria during birthing and pick up plenty more from their mother's skin and milk—during breast-feeding, the mammary glands become colonized with bacteria."

[1] http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/strange-but-true-h...

Re: The Mediocrity Principle

#12

Post by tormeh »

lohankin wrote: post #4

What follows immediately from the principle is that humans are not special among species. We are average. Most of the life on Earth is bacteria life. At least half of bacteria must be more intelligent than we are. Instead of pursuing futile AI idea, we need to find a way to cooperate with bacteria, as equal partners, and make use of their talents.

"Hngh. Arrrgh. Uff." That's what I thought while reading your comment. I wish I could downvote you.

He's clearly talking about "special" not in the sense of deviating from the norm, but in the sense of being exempt from the same rules that govern other entities in the universe.

Well, I flagged you (for trolling). That will have to do.

Re: The Mediocrity Principle

#13

Post by daenz »

lohankin wrote: post #4

What follows immediately from the principle is that humans are not special among species. We are average. Most of the life on Earth is bacteria life. At least half of bacteria must be more intelligent than we are. Instead of pursuing futile AI idea, we need to find a way to cooperate with bacteria, as equal partners, and make use of their talents.

Yeah I'm not buying it either. The author is equating intentional fate with privilege, but they're not the same. You, this planet, etc, is all a result of "random" natural processes, but it does not mean some of those random processes had substantially better outcomes than others. Like you mentioned, being a human is pretty much the choice species to be on this planet. Living in a 1st world country vs 3rd world country is another huge advantage. Being proficient in technology could be another. The list goes on. Just because there exists some statistical distribution of outcomes, it does not mean we cannot recognize and exploit the really rare and valuable ones.

Re: The Mediocrity Principle

#14

Post by [deleted] »

themartorana wrote: post #7
lohankin wrote: post #4

What follows immediately from the principle is that humans are not special among species. We are average. Most of the life on Earth is bacteria life. At least half of bacteria must be more intelligent than we are. Instead of pursuing futile AI idea, we need to find a way to cooperate with bacteria, as equal partners, and make use of their talents.

I don't know. Everything in the principle seems to equate equal to equal - you as a human are not special among humans... Earth is not special among planets, and so on. To assume humans are not special among all life is to ignore evolution and our dominant position on Earth. That said, we didn't get here by divine intervention, and on another planet with life, the dominant species will likely have followed a similar…

[deleted]

Re: The Mediocrity Principle

#15

Post by Retric »

altcognito wrote: post #3

The only thing that seems to violate the mediocrity principle is the staggering odds that we exist in the first place given the conditions under which intelligent life needs to have in order to exist. But then, Anthropic_principle, so there's that. Een then, once you understand the vastness of the universe, even falls under the veil of inevitability.

Don't confuse our history as the only possible history. There are lot's of planets out there vary much like earth. Presumably there are trillions of planets with single celled life and quite possibly trillions of planets with intelegent life just not close enough for us to notice.

The universe is likely far larger than just the observable univers. Still ~27+ billion light years across means we only get to see suff that's less than 1 billion years old within ~1/20,000th of the univers and the last 1 million years is ~1/20,000,000,000,000 of the visible universe. Look back 1 million years and earth has little trace of any intelegent life. Worse if there was another identical earth pushing out radio waves as much as we do 1,000 light years from us we would probably have missed it so add another 9 zeros.

Hell voyager 1 is in a well known location less than 2 light days from us pointing a directional antenna directly at us and it's not that easy to detect. 1 light year would mean ~1/10,000th the signal which would be hard.

Re: The Mediocrity Principle

#17

Post by lohankin »

lohankin wrote: post #4

What follows immediately from the principle is that humans are not special among species. We are average. Most of the life on Earth is bacteria life. At least half of bacteria must be more intelligent than we are. Instead of pursuing futile AI idea, we need to find a way to cooperate with bacteria, as equal partners, and make use of their talents.

> To assume humans are not special among all life is to ignore evolution and our dominant position on Earth.

And bacteria didn't evolve during last 2 billion years, right? Whoever downvoted me: you can't have it both ways. Average means average. We are not dominant species on Earth - bacteria is. I can imagine how they would laugh reading about such preposterous idea. No, I'm not kidding. I firmly believe we were created by bacteria by intentional effort, and every cell of our body is a specialized bacteria. One of them (probably, neuron) believes he is "me". But you won't like the idea, hence the objection. Simply NOT LIKE. Nothing to do with science or principles, just arrogance and pride. Please continue downvoting.

Re: The Mediocrity Principle

#18

Post by Balgair »

lohankin wrote: post #4

What follows immediately from the principle is that humans are not special among species. We are average. Most of the life on Earth is bacteria life. At least half of bacteria must be more intelligent than we are. Instead of pursuing futile AI idea, we need to find a way to cooperate with bacteria, as equal partners, and make use of their talents.

Most of the life is really unknown. I mean, archea is just beginning to be discovered really, all the wired little places prokaryotes seem to be these days, all the strange things they do, all the things we are engineering them to do, it's really exciting.

I don't know what you define intelligence as, but bacteria certainly don't possess it. They mostly just travel up or down a chemical, temperature, and maybe even electrical gradient. Then they mytos if there is food around. Sometimes a virus or other gene factor comes along and then they mutate a bit. A lot of the time, they just die.

Also, the AI stuff is not futile, it's just a tool. Yeah, the phones get smarter and smarter, but they are still tools. Until we start making AI's the make their own tools, then they really can be called intelligent. That and they'll need evolutionary pressure to stay alive.

Also, we WAY cooperate with prokaryotes and eukaryotes alike. I mean, Beer?! Cheese?! Like all the really tasty stuff has a bacteria or yeast culture at the start it seems. Also, insulin is all bacteria derived. Most agriculture started out with bacteria to get the nitrogen fixations going (now we just make ammonia industrially). We really rely on bacteria a lot in civilization.

Re: The Mediocrity Principle

#19

Post by alecco »

david927 wrote: post #8

"The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile, but that it is indifferent. If we can come to terms with this indifference, then our existence as a species can have genuine meaning. However vast the darkness, we must supply our own light." , Stanley Kubrick

"As if that blind rage had washed me clean, rid me of hope; for the first time, in that night alive with signs and stars, I opened myself to the gentle indifference of the world. Finding it so much like myself—so like a brother, really—I felt that I had been happy and that I was happy again. For everything to be consummated, for me to feel less alone, I had only to wish that there be a large crowd of spectators the day of my execution and that they greet me with cries of hate.", Albert Camus, The Stranger
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